Twin Time!

abolton1 said:
Its tough to say without knowing what they're charging customers per hour. But I can say that the Apache is pretty cheap to operate.
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Relative to what? A Seminole, a Baron? Or in this case, bought and owned 60's era Cherokees and Arrows?
 
Basically by cutting out that extra 40 bucks an hour and paying you in flight time, he keeps his operating cost the same and improves efficiency with a faster plane....all while playing the "I'm doing this for your benefit" card.


But I'm just a grumpy pessimistic prick.
 
abolton1 said:
http://www.what2fly.com/operating_cost/piper.php

According to this site (probably not 100% accurate but I would say its pretty close) the Apache 150 cost about 30 dollars more an hour than the Cherokee 150.
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PA28-160 - Total Variable Cost / Hr - $66.43

PA23-160 - Total Variable Cost / Hr - $229.62

for a difference of $163.19 / Hr

abolton1 said:
Basically by cutting out that extra 40 bucks an hour and paying you in flight time, he keeps his operating cost the same and improves efficiency with a faster plane....all while playing the "I'm doing this for your benefit" card.
But I'm just a grumpy pessimistic prick.
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You said it, not me. ;)
 
abolton1 said:
Basically by cutting out that extra 40 bucks an hour and paying you in flight time, he keeps his operating cost the same and improves efficiency with a faster plane....all while playing the "I'm doing this for your benefit" card.


But I'm just a grumpy pessimistic prick.
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Faster? We are talking about an Apache.
 
abolton1 said:
I compared the Apache 150, not the 160.
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Right, I get that, but I'm showing you the actual equipment we're using, 160 engines in each plane we're talking about for this operation. With that fact in mind, your $30/hr difference is no longer relevant.
 
ozziecat35 said:
Right, I get that, but I'm showing you the actual equipment we're using, 160 engines in each plane we're talking about for this operation. With that fact in mind, your $30/hr difference is no longer relevant.
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That 229 an hour is calculated at burning 34 gal/hr.....which the Apache does not burn (not sure why it's calculated so high on that site)

So the more realistic number is 100 an hour
 
JordanD said:
So would somebody take a captain upgrade at an FO payrate because they need turbine PIC?
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I think you just described the entire regional industry. :)

Again if a company needs two pilots to operate they should be paid for doing that job. In this case his boss doesn't need to operate a twin. No one is forced to fly it and if no one flys, the boss is still paying for maintaining and insuring it while it just sits there. Would it be better if the boss said I'll rent you an Apache on your off time for $40 dollars an hour? Either way it's the same amount of money from the employee. This is no where near a pay to fly operation. This is a way for guys to get a couple hours of ME time here and there, if they want it.
 
PositionAndHold said:
I think you just described the entire regional industry. :)

Again if a company needs two pilots to operate they should be paid for doing that job. In this case his boss doesn't need to operate a twin. No one is forced to fly it and if no one flys, the boss is still paying for maintaining and insuring it while it just sits there. Would it be better if the boss said I'll rent you an Apache on your off time for $40 dollars an hour? Either way it's the same amount of money from the employee. This is no where near a pay to fly operation. This is a way for guys to get a couple hours of ME time here and there, if they want it.
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If every pilot at the company did NOT want to fly it, would the boss find someone to fly it for free? If so, someone's paying job was taken.

If not, then the twin just sits on the ground. Likewise if say I fly plane xyz normally but today I wanna fly the twin, as long as xyz is not flying, my job wasn't taken away per se.

If every plane in the fleet is up in the air at the same time, someone's paid job just became free. . (because a single engine pilot could fly an additional single engine plane for pay doing the work the twin is doing for free)
 
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abolton1 said:
I took the carrot.... No shame.

Not all of us want to make a career out of survey like you. ;)
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Hah, I'm not making a career out of it, but if I took the suck that was that place for another 500 hours my eyeballs were gonna pop out of my head.
 
PositionAndHold said:
I think you just described the entire regional industry. :)

Again if a company needs two pilots to operate they should be paid for doing that job. In this case his boss doesn't need to operate a twin. No one is forced to fly it and if no one flys, the boss is still paying for maintaining and insuring it while it just sits there. Would it be better if the boss said I'll rent you an Apache on your off time for $40 dollars an hour? Either way it's the same amount of money from the employee. This is no where near a pay to fly operation. This is a way for guys to get a couple hours of ME time here and there, if they want it.
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Time = Money
 
gotWXdagain said:
Time = Money
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Exactly. And how much money did you spend to rent an ME airplane even when you were training? I guarantee you paid almost $40 an hour just for the instructor. I understand what people are saying about getting some one to do it full time but we're not talking about that. It sounds as though this guys heart is in the right place. I guess this is the age of "every ones out to screw me until proven otherwise". Yes, we have to look out for the new guys and not let them get taken advantage of. There is a balance though.

As I alluded to before. The regionals and thier pay scales have set back the industry much further than one guy in Apache could ever hope for, he'd at least have to have a fleet of 1900's do even make a wave. (I too once took a job at xjt for those same pay scales. And I will consider myself an equal part of the problem)
 
PositionAndHold said:
Exactly. And how much money did you spend to rent an ME airplane even when you were training? I guarantee you paid almost $40 an hour just for the instructor. I understand what people are saying about getting some one to do it full time but we're not talking about that. It sounds as though this guys heart is in the right place. I guess this is the age of "every ones out to screw me until proven otherwise". Yes, we have to look out for the new guys and not let them get taken advantage of. There is a balance though.

As I alluded to before. The regionals and thier pay scales have set back the industry much further than one guy in Apache could ever hope for, he'd at least have to have a fleet of 1900's do even make a wave. (I too once took a job at xjt for those same pay scales. And I will consider myself an equal part of the problem)
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Paid more than $40/hr, the school's rate was in the 50 neighborhood as I recall. And the instructor made more per hour than he would have had he not had his MEI. Time = Money. You could do this guy's work for him, and gift him your time for free, or you could go to an operator that will give you some of the money you earn for him/her, flying his/her twin.
 
gotWXdagain said:
Paid more than $40/hr, the school's rate was in the 50 neighborhood as I recall. And the instructor made more per hour than he would have had he not had his MEI. Time = Money. You could do this guy's work for him, and gift him your time for free, or you could go to an operator that will give you some of the money you earn for him/her, flying his/her twin.
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I give up. On the scale of 1 to Gulfstream this guy is a -.05. There are much bigger fish to fry. What about the right seat programs at certain cargo ops? The guys in the left seat aren't protesting on behalf of their maltreated (paying to be there) right seaters. They have no problem letting them sling the gear and attempt to talk on the radio. But this is the fight we're going to fight? A guy with an Apache who's not asking any one to fly it who doesn't want to and is maybe breaking even on it? The horror.
 
gotWXdagain said:
Paid more than $40/hr, the school's rate was in the 50 neighborhood as I recall. And the instructor made more per hour than he would have had he not had his MEI. Time = Money. You could do this guy's work for him, and gift him your time for free, or you could go to an operator that will give you some of the money you earn for him/her, flying his/her twin.
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Assuming one had his pick of jobs or was single without a family to support and cannot uproot at the blink of an eye. Seriously folks, things are not always black and white.
I was given a job with around 250 hours....show me another place willing to do that for that rate, that also allows you to sleep in your own bed every night if you so choose.
 
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