Twin or Single

Given the choices, which would you choose


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Yeah, more like 3x.
You beat me to it, I was going to say 4X as expensive. You'd think if you double the engines you should double the maintenance, but it just doesn't work that way. Everything from parallel alternator systems to prop sync systems add complexity, that's more parts to break, harder to troubleshoot, and working on them is more time consuming, which adds up to a lot more than double the price.
 
I agree with the safety argument. However, 90% of the flying will be day VFR. More times than not, there’s a place to put it down if it quits.


The R is faster, but I’m looking at the earlier 310 with the 470. They’re about a 160-170kts plane, which is the same speeds at the 35. I’m bias towards Beeches, as I have quite a bit of time in them.

For work I’m flying 300-400hrs. I’ll have plenty of time to fly small planes. When I owned my cheetah I was flying 150hrs while flying nearly 1000 with work.

It won’t be 2x fuel burn and the maintenance doesn’t scare me as long as I get a thorough prebuy. The earlier 310 burn around 22-24/hr.

Huh. Do tell. Are we talking about an islander?

Sounds like you've just made a pretty solid case for the 35. Now go find one with a 550 :D
 
I’ve never flown the small twin Cessna, but I can tell you that everyone on the Twin Cessna forum who has moved up to the 310 from singles has never looked back and loves their airplanes.

Personally, after spending so many years with two engines, I just found it really difficult going back to a single. Just flying at night over featureless terrain made me nervous. I want that second engine. I sold the Mooney and bought the 421 and it was the best decision I made.

FYI, go over to www.twincessna.org and email the president, and he’ll send you all sorts of good info on the 310, including hourly costs.
 
I’ve never flown the small twin Cessna, but I can tell you that everyone on the Twin Cessna forum who has moved up to the 310 from singles has never looked back and loves their airplanes.

Personally, after spending so many years with two engines, I just found it really difficult going back to a single. Just flying at night over featureless terrain made me nervous. I want that second engine. I sold the Mooney and bought the 421 and it was the best decision I made.

FYI, go over to www.twincessna.org and email the president, and he’ll send you all sorts of good info on the 310, including hourly costs.

Same here. Started in a 210 and never once felt comfortable. I rationalized the hell out of buying a single but when it came down to putting my butt in the seat I spent the entire time boring holes through the EDM waiting for something to happen. I was not a happy camper and got rid of the thing after a year.
 
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Pretty easy...twin engines have more systems and more complex systems and they break more often. Everything from wiring faults to dual vacuum regulator systems screwing each other up. Also if you’re talking earlier 310 vs a newer Bo the sheer age of the airplane (despite a thorough prebuy) and the difficulty finding parts are gonna be fun. But hey, what do I know. Not like I took care of a fleet of aging piston aircraft for a few years or anything.
I'm not arguing, but would this hold true for the casual flyer?

With what mission objectives you have offered throughout the thread, and if you are going to go with the best fit for that mission, then go with the single. It will be a better value in every way. If you were to add caveats like greater useful load or air conditioning or not canceling just because there are low ceilings, then you're more in twin territory, but I'd personally still say look harder at a 36 at that point.

Full disclosure: I fly a single engine airplane in some elevated risk scenarios so I'm just slightly deadened to the risk associated with flying a single compared to a few others.
The useful load isn't an issue as it will be 2 adults and a dog 90% of the time. AC in a small GA aircraft? That's just wrong. In a previous life I flew the 36 in all wx (OOTSK) and have had quite a few vacuum pump and electrical failures in LIFR, I won't be doing that again. If I have get there-itis, l'll take the airlines. My thought is, you can purchase a 310 with good bones for about half the cost of a nice 35, thus leaving you with 30-40k for mx and fuel play money.
 
hahaha ... oh man.

Jessica Biel or Jessica Alba?
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For work I’m flying 300-400hrs. I’ll have plenty of time to fly small planes. When I owned my cheetah I was flying 150hrs while flying nearly 1000 with work.

OK - Yeah, I'd honestly get the single for several reasons.

One - a single is more fun. Fewer levers, good handling characteristics, and ease of "flyability" are good things and fun things. I don't want flying "off duty" to be "work." I want it to be fun. Singles are fun.

Two, it's at least 2x more expensive to buy the twin, probably 3 times as expensive. For 150hrs per year in the twin, you could afford 450 hrs per year in a single - you could basically fly wherever you want for whatever reason and it wouldn't be a big deal. You could afford to fix anything with that kind of budget, and you could have nice glass and a decent autopilot. Beyond that, the performance between the two airplanes isn't appreciably different. It's not like you're picking up a ton of speed with the twin - it's only like 15 knots and maybe 150NM. At those kinds of speeds, you're going to want to make bathroom landings anyway - you're not going to slog it out all the way there.

Three, it's going to be possible but challenging to maintain proficiency in the twin on 150hrs per year if you're not spending time training in the thing, which adds to the expense. Honestly, you could take the cost savings and spend literally an hour or so a week on practicing engine out procedures in the single - you could buy this: http://xavion.com/ and become insanely proficient. You could spend 50hrs per year on self study, and take the cost of 50hrs per year and spend it on aerobatics and emergency training with an instructor and you'd still be spending less than the twin. Finally, with controllability being significantly more difficult during an engine failure in the 310 than in whatever you're flying at work, there may be significant negative transfer between the two regimes. To that end, I'd recommend the simplicity of the single - especially if you don't see yourself spending the time (and money) to stay sharp on single engine work in the 310.

If you don't take my word for it, read this article:
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2013/june/pilot/dogfight-twin-versus-single

In particular:
At a time of painful fuel prices, piston twins are anachronisms—and the open market judges them harshly. New Barons and Seneca Vs are produced in extremely low volume. And the value of a used single-engine Bonanza often surpasses that of twin-engine Barons of the same model year.

If you need to unload it later for whatever reason, I'd rather be trying to sell a Bonanza than a 310.

The only reason I can see to buy the twin is the "cool factor." If it's a status symbol thing, I get it, but honestly, if it were my family, I'd probably rather put them in the single. Statistically (hilariously), they're probably better off in the single as opposed to a piston twin.

Now if I could afford a King Air, then the equation changes...but yeah.
 
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The only real justification to buy a single over a twin is money (operating costs) IMO.

I guess I could get behind a Cirrus with the parachute system...maybe...

A Twin Comanche is the most economical twin out there if you're worried about running costs. Fastest TAS per hourly burn. Its issue however is complexity with too many parts and having been out of production since the early 70's...not many around these days.
 
@ppragman, Thanks for the input. Funny you mention a King Air. I have access to a B200 for the cost of fuel, but when the thing burns 80gal/hr, that's a bit of a deterrent. I never thought about a twin before until the twin market started dropping out on them.

The whole "singles are safer than twins" thing is a bunch of BS. Singles are safer than twins when the data set includes mostly doctors and lawyers who fly 40 hours a year and have never had rigorous multi-engine training. If that's not you, get the twin. It's safer.
I agree 110%.
 
Keep in mind on the King Air, though, you can get gas for about half the price you can get Jet A in most places. You just need to join the fuel discount programs. I've run the numbers on a King Air or an MU-2, and it would basically be break even for me compared to my 421.
 
Keep in mind on the King Air, though, you can get gas for about half the price you can get Jet A in most places. You just need to join the fuel discount programs. I've run the numbers on a King Air or an MU-2, and it would basically be break even for me compared to my 421.

I'm sure you're aware, but there are easily a half dozen or more contract fuel companies that provide Jet A pricing well below listed retail.

@EIR if you're budget is $100K you could fly the King Air for 278 hours with fuel at $4.50/gal. I don't know where you're located, but I've seen Jet A down below $3/gal in the midwest. Theoretically, that should be worth close to 500 hours of piston time bouncing along at 165 KTAS.
 
I'm sure you're aware, but there are easily a half dozen or more contract fuel companies that provide Jet A pricing well below listed retail.

@EIR if you're budget is $100K you could fly the King Air for 278 hours with fuel at $4.50/gal. I don't know where you're located, but I've seen Jet A down below $3/gal in the midwest. Theoretically, that should be worth close to 500 hours of piston time bouncing along at 165 KTAS.
I don't follow. It costs a lot more to operate a King Air over a single piston. I just don't buy the mx costs alone are anywhere near comparable. Otherwise no one would own a Mooney or Bonanza.
 
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