Velocipede
New Member
Never got to try the HEEDS. It was under development when I got out.
Trying to fly for the military
- Thread starter SatelliteBeachPilot
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mjg407
Well-Known Member
Ian_J
Hubschrauber Flieger
Here's a pic of Velo in flight school:Did they have turbine helo's when you got out? :nana2:
rmepilot
New Member
Was a few years ago ('02-04). Back in the Cav until I retire next year.
Edit: May have had more illum than I recall, but it was still dark as f&*#. The only lights were from the distant shoreline and an occasional buoy.
Velocipede
New Member
Actually, I flew the older model of the bird you pictured.
Low_Level_Hell
Well-Known Member
During my board for Warrant Officer Flight Training a Major interviewing me asked me if I would join if I couldn't fly. I gave a similar answer which got me the 'stink eye' from him. I was 18 at the time and now that I think about it I really wish I didn't say that and how little I really knew about the military back then. Fortunately I was selected anyway and since then I have a different perspective. The guys who I can tell or even admit themselves who are just in it for the flying generally make poor warriors and mediocre pilots. They're not mission focused and don't think about how best they help the situation on the ground. They're too absorbed in the being a pilot and could care less about what's going on under them. As with any job in the military one's role is important, if they're in it for their own selfish reasons it may be a hindrance.
It wouldn't be suprising if most military Aviators said the only thing they would do is fly before they joined whether they admit it or not. Maintaining that attitude past their initial training will hurt them professionally, they'll be miserable when they realize how much flying is not part of the job and their performance as an officer will suffer.
Ian_J
Hubschrauber Flieger
:yeahthat:
Excellent post and spot on in my opinion.
And to add to it, I'd say even if some officers come into to it only for the flying, after the basic course, flight school, and your first operational assignment I'd guess most of those guys change their priorities as they become part of the culture.
Excellent post and spot on in my opinion.
And to add to it, I'd say even if some officers come into to it only for the flying, after the basic course, flight school, and your first operational assignment I'd guess most of those guys change their priorities as they become part of the culture.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
I find it interesting how the military wants officers first but then spurs on the recruitment via commercials sporting all these things people want to do and once they get in are disappointed. Not saying they should let them in or just hand them a flight spot, but the advertising we see could be one major reason why you guys keep having to answer these questions only to find out the person just wants to fly and after ten years will probably bail for an airline.
I believe recruitment strategies need to change a little in this regard.
I believe recruitment strategies need to change a little in this regard.
mjg407
Well-Known Member
"let the buyer beware"
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
I think the marines do a good job in this respect, slogans like "we don't make compromises, we make marines," are better than "Fly Navy." Same with the "do something amazing commercials" that the Airforce has, they don't tell you that every cool job has a #### load of paper work, and boredom to go with it. Work is a four letter word.
Low_Level_Hell
Well-Known Member
Point taken, but if they made commercials of an officer scrubbing the property book and loading/unloading shipping containers amonst all the other paperwork and menial tasks that encompass the job no one would join. I don't think alot of civilian airline pilots realize how nice it is that all they do is fly or prepare for the flight.
skydog
New Member
Here's the thing. That squad of soldiers hunkered down in a foxhole somewhere taking enemy fire doesn't care about "your dream." They care about surviving the day. They need to know that if they get in a tight spot, that our military air forces are staffed by men and woman willing to risk everything to give those guys a fighting chance. A guy who is just in it for the flying, in my opinion, is less likely to do that. That's the difference service vs. self-service.
I don't fault you for wanting to fly military jets. Nor do I fault you for wantng to pursue your dream. I'm simply saying that the military doesn't exist to facilitate your career advancement.
bunk22
Well-Known Member
The military, at least the Navy, is certainly changing its way of doing business as far as flying goes. There have always been ground jobs associated with your flying job. As a JO, I had ground jobs such as Comm Officer, PAO, 1st LT, ARO, Division Officer and with them come paperwork and headaches. Nothing like the headache of being a DH though, especially of a two aircraft, 50 man detachment. Regardless, that's all the same. The part that is different is what it takes to make rank as an officer, specifically from O-4 on up. The Navy has leaned towards joint tours, war college (JPME I/II), non-flying tours, etc.
For example, when I checked into my first fleet squadron back in 98, the CO had over 5000 flight hours, XO over 4000. The next XO then CO, had almost 6000 flight hours...his XO, over 4000. These guys had never left the cockpit. Also knew of a few other O-5 types (non Command types) with over 5000 hours who also never left the cockpit. Most likely, not going to happen anymore. Making O-5 without your JPME and joint tour is exceedingly tough. Acutally, it's my understanding that nobody made O-5 in my community on this last board without at least one of those and on their way to the second. My last CO of my fleet squadron barely had 2000hrs, had war college, JPME II and a joint tour under his belt (might have been his JPME II). He was lackluster pilot, poor leader and manager but very good at paperwork, secretarial stuff. He was in that position because he had played the game, got the checks in the block, etc. Nevermind that he couldn't lead or fly well. Don't get me wrong, not all the CO's with high flight time were good leaders either. The majority of good leaders that I've seen have either not made command or punched when their time came. This particular CO came into OPS one day and ensured he would not fly to the boat with nuggets (new squadron pilots without a deployment) because he felt uneasy. Yeah, like all of us felt great going to the boat with nuggets He's just lucky we stopped flying to the boat at night in our community. Imagine that uneasiness.
Anyway, staying in the cockpit throughout ones career is increasingly difficult and if you have managed it, the chances of making O-5 are incredibly slim to none now days. I think a Warrant Officer program is great for those wishing to fly without all the other BS that happens around the standard O corps.
For example, when I checked into my first fleet squadron back in 98, the CO had over 5000 flight hours, XO over 4000. The next XO then CO, had almost 6000 flight hours...his XO, over 4000. These guys had never left the cockpit. Also knew of a few other O-5 types (non Command types) with over 5000 hours who also never left the cockpit. Most likely, not going to happen anymore. Making O-5 without your JPME and joint tour is exceedingly tough. Acutally, it's my understanding that nobody made O-5 in my community on this last board without at least one of those and on their way to the second. My last CO of my fleet squadron barely had 2000hrs, had war college, JPME II and a joint tour under his belt (might have been his JPME II). He was lackluster pilot, poor leader and manager but very good at paperwork, secretarial stuff. He was in that position because he had played the game, got the checks in the block, etc. Nevermind that he couldn't lead or fly well. Don't get me wrong, not all the CO's with high flight time were good leaders either. The majority of good leaders that I've seen have either not made command or punched when their time came. This particular CO came into OPS one day and ensured he would not fly to the boat with nuggets (new squadron pilots without a deployment) because he felt uneasy. Yeah, like all of us felt great going to the boat with nuggets
He's just lucky we stopped flying to the boat at night in our community. Imagine that uneasiness. Anyway, staying in the cockpit throughout ones career is increasingly difficult and if you have managed it, the chances of making O-5 are incredibly slim to none now days. I think a Warrant Officer program is great for those wishing to fly without all the other BS that happens around the standard O corps.
mjg407
Well-Known Member
I flew every tour in the Navy. At the end of my DH tour, I was the MO, my top competitor was the OPS O. He had all the tickets (JPME, Post Grad, Shooter, etc) (he was also a FO), I had just flown every tour in the P-3 from both straight stick and EP-3s. I walked into the squadron qualified, no spool up time at all, also, as a pilot, and the senior O-4 pilot in the squadron, my day would start at 0545 end at 1800, and weekends. I also flew every maintenance check flight and instructor upgrade flight, while managing a department of over 350 folks. My CO pulled me aside and said "I love you like a son, you are the best leader in the wardroom, but there is no way I can screen you for command.....XXXX has the tickets, he's getting the number one ticket". Sorry. What that means is that your career is over, you should still make O-5, but no command, no more flying, and the Nav will be looking for "Payback" for you flying the whole time. Also, if you go in the Nav, you are looking at giving up one of your shore tours to spend a year or so on the ground in the fun and sun capital of the world.
bunk22
Well-Known Member
A familiar story and unfortunetly, very standard now days. Years ago, you would have been number one and command screened.
rmepilot
New Member
My best friend growing up in Oregon, who flew A-4's and A-6's said the same thing to me right after I finished flight school.
I've had a wonderful flying career, but now as I approach W-5 the only jobs available for me as senior Maintenance Test Pilot are in the support side of Brigade Staff (where I'll never see another combat mission). Time to retire and get a real job.
pilotben1986
New Member
Ha man there is no guarantee of that! you need to first pass your AFOQT with high scores and you need to pass the DOMERB which is your department of defense medical exam review board, lots easier to say "dodmerbs". I did the same crap you are trying to do, except I went the air force academy route. I did get in but my dodmerbs said I was only navigator qualified due to my eyes, and my eyes are not bad. They said they would only consider you after you train for the first year as a Navigator. After a few weeks at the academy i said screw this I have a better chance in the civilian world. I knew another guy who was ahead of me and went your route. He had all his ratings and was flying for a commuter, he decided to go air force and ended up being a navigator for years...no flying...so be careful. My suggestion if you want to have better chances getting in the cool planes you should try another branch or another military. Air Force sets standards too high and are too competitive for the flying positions. oh and if you do get a flying job in the air force expect to fly a few times a month and then fly a cubical the rest of the time. They have lots of pilots. I know it doesnt sound cool but you might have a better chance being a fighter pilot for the Canadian air force, or even the royal air force. They do the same missions as and with the U.S. it wont be much different. Same mission dude. Another thing if you want to be a pilot for the air force be ready to sign a ten year minimum contract. Anyone tells you different they are full of crap. Especially recruiters. I spent four years in the air force and know they are full of it! I loved it but they are full of it.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Standards too high for what? There's a REASON the USAF has high entry and training standards.
Not really. I think you'll find that old guys like me have a career like that...young dudes fly their asses off.
How do you propose that a US citizen go join the RCAF or the RAF? Any ideas on how that works? Hint: it has something to do with not being a US citizen anymore.
bunk22
Well-Known Member
Can someone point out the problem with this advice? Anyone? The problem is you were never a winged aviator with the AF yet you offer advice concerning flying with the AF. Set their standards too high? Too competitive? Are you kidding? Maybe it was too competitive for you, standards to high for you, but for many others, it is an absolute reachable goal. I say that being there are many, many folks who are either Air Force pilot students (I see them every day) or Air Force pilots, I see them every day as well. Just because you didn't achieve doesn't mean others can't or won't. Nothing worthwhile is easy, the standards are set high for a reason but they are not impossible.
Foreign air forces often have the most competitive service selection being they don't the number of aircraft our forces have in service. I'm assigned to NETSAFA in Pensacola, the OIC of the prep school for the Royal Navy Saudia Pilots. However, I get to hear and see other foriegn students and the selection process is very tough, Saudi aside. The best place for an American to fly is here in the US. It is true that flying throughout your career is increasingly tough and UAV's are a real possibility but if it's something you really want, do it. Civilian flying will never compare with military flying. For the Navy, what comes close to flying to the aircraft carrier, day or night? Flying in formation to the boat, goin for the break, hitting that three wire. Nothing like it. The best time for flying is your first 10 years, pretty much your contract. After that, it might be hit and miss.
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