True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero wit

Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

Hacker15e said:
I didn't make any such statement about that being a prerequisite for having an opinion: you evidently inferred that yourself.
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My apologies, then. The way it was worded sounded (to me) as though you were making it a prerequisite. Sorry if I misunderstood the intent.
 
Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

Bandit_Driver said:
Very interesting and probably a 1:1,000,000 shot. But if it did happen at least he got some payback for dead crewmembers. There no freaking reason to shoot a guy in parachute. That is inexcuseable..

I read a store in AOPA or Flying sometime back where a bomber was badly wounded and lost and totally SOL and heading deeper into the enemy territory. As the story a goes a german fighter pulled up along side and saw all the damange and didn't have the heart to finish the plane off and turned them around toward friendly territory, saluted them and turned away.
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I read in one of the books I've read, can't remember which one, where a guy was in an already shot-up P-47 and turned to head home.. The pilot saw a 109 go by and knew he was going to come back after him. I guess he had little ability to do more than fly straight and level, so he rolled up the bathtub and kept chugging.. The 109 pulled up behind him and rudder pedaled him full of more lead.. Jug kept flying.. 109 eased up along side the 47 looked it over and fell back behind the Jug and pedaled him a second time.. Jug kept flying.. The 109 pulled up along side of the 47 again and I guess couldn't believe the thing was still flying, so he saluted the Jug pilot, broke off the attack and left him alone..

I've always heard if you wanted to send your picture to a girl back home, you wanted to be in a Mustang. If you wanted to go back home to see that girl, you want to be in a Jug. :)
 
Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

Hacker15e said:
How many of you guys who are talking about peoples' conduct during combat operations have actually participated in active combat yourselves?
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Almost nightly man! I'm Tramsootru on Xbox live, hit me up, we'll play some Black Ops!!
 
Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

Cptnchia said:
In the book, "Flyboys," about the air war around ichi jima, where Bush Sr was shot down, the author states that it was the US pilots who first started the practice of shooting at pilots in parachutes. It had to do with the racial hatred at the time, and the belief that the "yellow" man did not deserve the respect that was shown to a downed "white" pilot.
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Racial hatred? Are we talking about Nanking now or something?
 
Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

Seriously? You don't feel that there was racial hatred in the US towards the Japanese and vice versa? Go to the WWII museum in New Orleans. They have a great exhibit showing how US propaganda tried to de-humanize the Asian during the war, and how it compared to the Nazis de-humanizing of the Jews.
 
Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

Cptnchia said:
Seriously? You don't feel that there was racial hatred in the US towards the Japanese and vice versa? Go to the WWII museum in New Orleans. They have a great exhibit showing how US propaganda tried to de-humanize the Asian during the war, and how it compared to the Nazis de-humanizing of the Jews.
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It probably happened all the way around; kind of the nature of war. Makes killing the enemy easier for some, regardless of side.
 
Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

Very true, but one of the things it pointed out was the difference between anti Japanese and anti German propaganda. The anti German was portrayed as a struggle against the Nazi movement, not the individual German. Defeat the Nazi and save Germany. Against the Japanese, it was to be all out warfare, not just against the Tojo government, but to eradicate the population as well.
 
Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

Cptnchia said:
Very true, but one of the things it pointed out was the difference between anti Japanese and anti German propaganda. The anti German was portrayed as a struggle against the Nazi movement, not the individual German. Defeat the Nazi and save Germany. Against the Japanese, it was to be all out warfare, not just against the Tojo government, but to eradicate the population as well.
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If true, I wonder if that would be due to cause: ie- we went into the Europe war after it started....Germany not having attacked us first on our homeland, versus Japan physically attacking us and dragging us into the Pacific war. Also, you had very different treatment of our soldiers/sailors/airmen POWs by the Germans, versus by the Japanese. Germans followed the Geneva accords nearly to the letter when it came to US/Brit POWs, whereas the Japanese were quite brutal in their treatment of all POWs and even of civilians such as the Chinese and Koreans.
 
Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

I don't think that asia and the middle east has the same regard for human life that we do, at least of those that they consider to be below them (ie POW's, poor people, minorities, mentally ill). Seems to continue to play out into today's warfare as well.....
 
Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

Tram said:
I read in one of the books I've read, can't remember which one, where a guy was in an already shot-up P-47 and turned to head home.. The pilot saw a 109 go by and knew he was going to come back after him. I guess he had little ability to do more than fly straight and level, so he rolled up the bathtub and kept chugging.. The 109 pulled up behind him and rudder pedaled him full of more lead.. Jug kept flying.. 109 eased up along side the 47 looked it over and fell back behind the Jug and pedaled him a second time.. Jug kept flying.. The 109 pulled up along side of the 47 again and I guess couldn't believe the thing was still flying, so he saluted the Jug pilot, broke off the attack and left him alone..

I've always heard if you wanted to send your picture to a girl back home, you wanted to be in a Mustang. If you wanted to go back home to see that girl, you want to be in a Jug. :)
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That was the second leading ace in the European theatre, Rober S. Johnson, flying that P-47 and it was a FW-190 being flown by a German 80 kill ace.

For the mods, I think we need to erase the story as I think it's a copyright violation being I copied and pasted the whole thing. I should have posted the link and a summation.
 
Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

Hacker, I've got a lot of respect for you, so I will say this as with as much candor as I can:

Your post did have a tone of condescension toward people who haven't served in combat. Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I inferred a level of sarcasm in your voice, perhaps because I am aware that you have, in fact, served in combat.

Relative to this thread, I think the participants are more trying to understand than passing judgment. There is a fine line, to be sure.

I recently finished reading "Unbroken" - which was the biography of Louis Zamperini and his experience as a B-24 crewman and later as a POW in Japan. It's an absolutely heartbreaking story, but also monumentally inspiring. Your problems will never seem the same after reading this.

It is well-documented that Japan's Army brutalized their own soldiers to create the type of inhuman monsters that us civilians have a great deal of difficulty comprehending. There was an explicit point made in the book that, as a whole, Allied POWs - especially officers, were treated considerably better in the European theater than in the Pacific.
 
Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

killbilly said:
Hacker, I've got a lot of respect for you, so I will say this as with as much candor as I can:

Your post did have a tone of condescension toward people who haven't served in combat. Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I inferred a level of sarcasm in your voice, perhaps because I am aware that you have, in fact, served in combat.
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My intent was really to gauge who was saying what and what types of experiences they had (or did not have) that made them believe that way. It's tough on an internet forum, especially since I haven't met the majority of you, to have perspective on comments without knowing some of that.

I understand where you guys were going with the comment -- it would be too easy to take the view that guys who have never seen combat are quick to criticize, and thus I might be discounting their opinion because of it.

Interestingly enough, being a combat vet does not set in stone how one views things like that. While most that I know have come to hate war and violence, it doesn't necessarily always go that way. While most I know would think that, if you haven't been there you're not in a position to pass judgment on those who were and the actions they took, that's not everyone's take. Quite the contrary, I think that those who have been there do have the unique ability to "throw the BS flag" on actions they think are totally out of line because they HAVE been there and know what standards of behavior do apply.

Despite the tone, I was merely asking on peoples' backgrounds.
 
Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

Certainly seems unlikely, but so does the story of Nicholas Alkemade who survived a freefall of 18,000 ft with no parachute. In both cases the odds are against it, and in neither case does anyone really believe it is something special about the person who managed to pull it off. Sometimes the Lady Luck gives you a pass.
 
Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

Hacker15e said:
My intent was really to gauge who was saying what and what types of experiences they had (or did not have) that made them believe that way. It's tough on an internet forum, especially since I haven't met the majority of you, to have perspective on comments without knowing some of that.

I understand where you guys were going with the comment -- it would be too easy to take the view that guys who have never seen combat are quick to criticize, and thus I might be discounting their opinion because of it.

Interestingly enough, being a combat vet does not set in stone how one views things like that. While most that I know have come to hate war and violence, it doesn't necessarily always go that way. While most I know would think that, if you haven't been there you're not in a position to pass judgment on those who were and the actions they took, that's not everyone's take. Quite the contrary, I think that those who have been there do have the unique ability to "throw the BS flag" on actions they think are totally out of line because they HAVE been there and know what standards of behavior do apply.

Despite the tone, I was merely asking on peoples' backgrounds.
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Fair enough. I appreciate your evenhandedness.

I won't presume to understand the inner narrative of one who has participated in combat, but I will seek understanding where possible.

As for the topic at hand - maybe it was the "1" in a one in a million shot. Dunno.

Makes for a good story though. :-)
 
Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

Itchy said:
Are you implying that we should have in order to discuss it?
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If you haven't been there, you just don't know. I don't know if he actually meant to imply it, but I'm flat out saying it.

As for the actual event, I believe it possible, but only if the Zero had his flaps down (and was in a near flare angle of attack) and the downed aviator was on a treadmill.
 
Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

You guys are letting the truth get in the way of a good story.
 
Re: True story??? A WWII airman shoots down a Japanese Zero

What part of UT? Im from UT as well, couple beehivers on here.
 
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