Trans States D.O. in Hot Water...

Firebird2XC said:
Maybe I recall incorrectly. I think there was a gear/lever disagree, but it indicated 3 green, and all other indications appeared normal.

I ferget. Either way, the point I recall was that the malfunction was completely outside the logic tree- it was something the crew kind of had to just interpolate. They interpolated incorrectly, but based on the scenario, the LGEU should have never given a 3 Green indication. That's what they let lead them astray.

The part that hurts is the aircraft sitting short of 22R that just sat and watched... LOL
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Very true. If I got some weird EICAS message I'd never seen before on short final, and saw three green, I'd likely say, "Hey skipper, let's put the plane on the ground and sort this out there, there's no reason to be up here flying around in circles when we're gonna be on the ground in under a minute."

Turns out that logic won't get you too far with this airplane.

Also, agree about the guys holding short. I'm willing to bet that nobody was paying any attention to the gear on the guy landing. I mean, who lands without gear right?
 
jtrain609 said:
Very true. If I got some weird EICAS message I'd never seen before on short final, and saw three green, I'd likely say, "Hey skipper, let's put the plane on the ground and sort this out there, there's no reason to be up here flying around in circles when we're gonna be on the ground in under a minute."
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Even if that message was a landing gear handle/gear disagree? Sure I'm Monday morning quarterbacking, but it's one thing if it's some Data aquisition unit fail or a Pack fail, it's another if it's some weird gear message that you normally never see.
 
Baronman said:
Even if that message was a landing gear handle/gear disagree? Sure I'm Monday morning quarterbacking, but it's one thing if it's some Data aquisition unit fail or a Pack fail, it's another if it's some weird gear message that you normally never see.
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I'm not really sure, to tell you the truth. The overarching logic of having a green indication is that, no matter what, your gear is down and locked. That's a truism that extends across every aircraft manufacture in the world, except EMB it seems.

So knowing what I know now? No, obviously taking it around is the best course of action there is. But prior to that incident? I don't know, it would be hard for me to say that I would have done things differently than that crew. Or I guess said another way, without the knowledge we have now, their course of action seems like it was a prudent decision, rooted in a reasonable analysis of the facts at hand.
 
jtrain609 said:
I'm not really sure, to tell you the truth. The overarching logic of having a green indication is that, no matter what, your gear is down and locked. That's a truism that extends across every aircraft manufacture in the world, except EMB it seems.

So knowing what I know now? No, obviously taking it around is the best course of action there is. But prior to that incident? I don't know, it would be hard for me to say that I would have done things differently than that crew. Or I guess said another way, without the knowledge we have now, their course of action seems like it was a prudent decision, rooted in a reasonable analysis of the facts at hand.
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All I know is this: Make for damn sure that you don't pull those flaps up on the runway. ;)
 
jtrain609 said:
We were told in initial that they DID have an EICAS message indicating a problem, told us which one it was, and said that just because the EICAS indicates gear down and three green does not mean it's true when associated with the above mentioned EICAS message.

That may or may not be correct, but it's what we were told, and I got the impression EMB went bat crazy sending that information along to every EMB-145 operator out there so the same mistake wouldn't happen again.
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Bizarre. Still sounds like very poor engineering.... you'd think you'd want any failure mode to give an unsafe indication. I'd be really interested to know any deeper technical data relating to that particular incident.
 
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