Training Contracts

Butter

New Member
Hi all! I'm new to posting on the site, but I've been reading and learning from you guys for quite a while now. Thanks in advance for any info.

Here is my issue: I work for a small 135 airline. When I interviewed for this job, they did not have pilots sign a training agreement nor did they mention anything about starting to make new pilots do this. A few weeks later when I received a letter in the mail offering me the job, nothing was mentioned about a training agreement. Day 1 of class a 1 year/$10000 agreement is mentioned, but nothing is signed. Nothing is mentioned again until upon completing my checkride, a contract is handed to me. Naturally, my first thought is, "Why would I want to take on financial responsibility for training I've already received?" I never sign the agreement. Four months pass and my boss confronts me about the agreement. I explain why I don't think the whole situation is fair or ethical and why I don't think I should have to sign it. She continues to argue and I told her I was going to get legal advice before I sign anything. I've talked to lawyers and heard their point of view and I just thought it would be nice to hear what other pilots thought about this whole situation. Advice? Thoughts? Similar experiences? All info is appreciated..
 

Copperhed51

Well-Known Member
Do you have to pay if they fire you or just if you quit before the year is up? Do you think you'll be taking a different job in the next 8 months? Can they fire you for not signing it now?

Just some things to consider. Other than that, I can't help you much.
 

jtrain609

Uniting the black vote.
We don't matter, take the advice of your lawyer.

Seriously if you've already retained legal counsel you're barking up the wrong tree with asking a bunch of pilots about this.
 

BajtheJino

I'm looking at you.
You'll find that most of these contracts are legally baseless and cannot be enforced. They are merely a moral barrier. Sign it, back date it and if something better comes along take it without fear of any legal/financial repercussion.
 

Hootie

Old Skool
any company that makes you sign a training contract, can't be an enjoyable place of employment. just imo
 

SpiceWeasel

Tre Kronor
Kinda like how the Great Lakes training contract was upheld in the Wyoming Supreme Court?

http://wyom.state.wy.us/applications/oscn/deliverdocument.asp?id=448863&hits=
Wow.... that's even worse than I would have thought. I mean, a 135 with no union.... that's one thing. But to violate the CBA that says "pilots will not be required to pay for training" and receive judgement in their favor upholding the training contract that guy was required to sign?!?!?

CrAzY!
 

jtrain609

Uniting the black vote.
Just goes to show; don't #### with the man unless you have sufficient firepower to put them in so much hurt they won't even consider trying to retaliate against you.
 

Butter

New Member
Well, yesterday my boss told me we would settle everything on Monday. Today (Friday), she calls me into her office and tries to get me to sign it again. I refuse and remind her that she told me we would settle all this on Monday. She then relieves me of all my flights until Monday and tells me that if I do not sign it then that is my resignation from the job. Seems like wrongful termination to me...
 

Butter

New Member
Time to leave. . .

Why of why do we keep doing this type of stuff to ourselves?

Enough is enough.

You're right. Enough in enough. If they fire me then they wasted their investment. I like the job, but not enough to let them walk all over me.
 

MikeFavinger

Hubschrauber Flieger
any company that makes you sign a training contract, can't be an enjoyable place of employment. just imo
Airnet *was* (no longer work there and things have changed so I can't speak to current conditions) an enjoyable company to work for and they have a training contract. In their case though, the training contract is brought up in detail before the interview, at the interview, and during training, so the pilot has every opportunity in the world to reject or accept the contract before they get hired.
 

MusketeerMan

Well-Known Member
We (RAH) have a training contract and it doesn't bother me at all. There was no way I was going to leave within the time-limits of the "contract" and if I did leave, the thing is filled with so many holes, it's a joke. I know a few from my class that have left and never heard a thing about paying back the company.

To each his own.
 

Butter

New Member
A company having a contract does not really bother me. That is not what I have an issue with. However, it should be information that should be given to all new hires during an interview, or at least some time before ground school. Also, if you want to implement a contract, you should have your pilots sign the contract before actually going through training. That is just common sense.
 

esa17

Well-Known Member
Once again, god forbid a company take steps to ensure that a pilot doesn't take the training and run. WHAT TERRIBLE MANAGEMENT! Protecting your bottom line is so yesterday. There is NOTHING wrong with training contracts.

That said, if they are expecting you to sign something after agreeing to terms then I wouldn't sign a thing. Not being ahead of the power curve IS bad management, once the ball has left your hand you're stuck with the pitch you chose. It sounds like they are forcing your hand and there isn't much you can do. Move on and chalk it up to experience.
 

ElyJs

New Member
If you think about it from a legal point of view, if the company really goes after you, they have a lot more to lose. You are a poor regional FO who stands to lose $7500,and your credit rating. The company has lawyers on retainer who will need to set the precedent. Who is bringing in the big guns? They get their decision and sell your payment to a collection agency.
 

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
Once again, god forbid a company take steps to ensure that a pilot doesn't take the training and run. WHAT TERRIBLE MANAGEMENT! Protecting your bottom line is so yesterday. There is NOTHING wrong with training contracts.
Because as pilots we should really be concerned with our company's bottom line to such a degree that they have to have a training contract?

Alarm bells should be going off on that one alone.

Further, it's not just about someone taking the training and running. It's about 21st century pilot pushing.

Oh - so you're not going to fly in these conditions? Fine. . .pay us your training bond and we'll set you free to go work somewhere else. Otherwise, it appears that you're quitting and will need to pay the training bond anyway. Pay up chump.

Realistically the negatives far out weigh any positives that being under a training bond could have, for your individual and for the profession as a whole.
 

MusketeerMan

Well-Known Member
You're right Surreal, training contracts are definitely DESTROYING this industry! Obama needs to address this on day 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:bandit:
 

NickH

Uber Driver
I have no problem with a training contract in general, PFJ/PFT beng a diffferent issue.

But this seems a little bit stupid to me. Meet them on Monday, explain that their training money is gone, but that you have no particular desire to leave right now, and offer to let them choose to have value for their money.

If they are so stupid that they'd fire you for not agreeing to stay, then they don't deserve you.
 
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