Traffic Pattern Question
- Thread starter Dazzler
- Start date
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
I see what you're saying about larger aircraft being up there, and if they were doing the SAME procedure as you they should also add 500' onto it. But if they are at their normal altitude (1,500' AGL) and you come blasting across perpendicular to them at 1,500', you could connect with them when they are on their downwind and you are crossing that path. Slim chance? Maybe. But I'm not very good at keeping track of 200 knots objects in the pattern and I don't like the idea of crossing somebody's downwind path at the same altitude as them when they are already established in the pattern.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
I thought that according =you=, some aircraft do:John Herreshoff said:
This must be a definition problem. You seem to be defining "traffic pattern altitude" as "the pattern altitude being used by the airplane flying the lowest and slowest." I'm using the broader definition implicit in AIM 4-3-3.
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Traffic Patterns
At most airports and military air bases, traffic pattern altitudes for propeller-driven aircraft generally extend from 600 feet to as high as 1,500 feet above the ground. Also, traffic pattern altitudes for military turbojet aircraft sometimes extend up to 2,500 feet above the ground.
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jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
This is all I'm saying, don't read too far into it.
A majority of GA piston singles fly their patterns at 1,000' AGL
A majority of larger GA aircraft and tubine equipment fly their patterns at 1,500' AGL
By crossing a pattern perpendicular to the downwind (on a 90 degree angle) in a GA piston single at their standard traffic pattern altitude of 1,000' AGL plus 500' means that you are crossing the downwind leg for said runway at 1,500' AGL
Hence, if there is a jet on downwind and you don't catch him you will be at his standard traffic pattern altitude. By doing so you are creating a serious potential for a mid air if you are at an airport that is frequented by turbine equipment while being equally shared by GA piston singles.
A good example of this is Arlington, TX.
You can be as implicit as you'd like, but stay away from me when you're doing so. Standard traffic pattern altitudes are 800-1,000' AGL for piston singles, and standard traffic pattern altitude for turbine equipment is 1,500' AGL. You can read in the AIM all you'd like about how aircraft can fly as low as 600' to as high as 2,500', but you're arguing definitions against reality. You know as well as I do what standard altitudes at uncontrolled airports are, so why are you even arguging this one?
A majority of GA piston singles fly their patterns at 1,000' AGL
A majority of larger GA aircraft and tubine equipment fly their patterns at 1,500' AGL
By crossing a pattern perpendicular to the downwind (on a 90 degree angle) in a GA piston single at their standard traffic pattern altitude of 1,000' AGL plus 500' means that you are crossing the downwind leg for said runway at 1,500' AGL
Hence, if there is a jet on downwind and you don't catch him you will be at his standard traffic pattern altitude. By doing so you are creating a serious potential for a mid air if you are at an airport that is frequented by turbine equipment while being equally shared by GA piston singles.
A good example of this is Arlington, TX.
You can be as implicit as you'd like, but stay away from me when you're doing so. Standard traffic pattern altitudes are 800-1,000' AGL for piston singles, and standard traffic pattern altitude for turbine equipment is 1,500' AGL. You can read in the AIM all you'd like about how aircraft can fly as low as 600' to as high as 2,500', but you're arguing definitions against reality. You know as well as I do what standard altitudes at uncontrolled airports are, so why are you even arguging this one?
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
I can ask you the same question.John Herreshoff said:
When I plan a flight, I take the 91.103 requirement for me to know where I am going seriously. If I'm heading to a non-towered airport with mixed use, that means that I know that while my traffic pattern may be 800 AGL, the airport also has jet traffic using a 1500 AGL pattern. Accordingly, because I'm not an idiot (at least I don't think I am), if I am coming from the "wrong" side of the pattern and =if= choose to do a flyover and return rather than some other approach to the pattern, I will fly above the jet pattern.
Please explain how that gets in you way and why you object to it so much that you can't even read what people are writing.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Ok we're clear now, I thought you were agreeing with Bob in that it's perfectly ok to fly across a jet's downwind at TPA plus 500' (1,500' AGL). This is what got me going...
"If you are using the cross-over/teardrop procedure, you cross the field at least 500' above the traffic pattern."
When another GA pilot says traffic pattern to me, in most cases they mean 1,000' AGL. If you mean quite literally you'll jump 500' over anybody's traffic pattern then that's great.
All clear.
"If you are using the cross-over/teardrop procedure, you cross the field at least 500' above the traffic pattern."
When another GA pilot says traffic pattern to me, in most cases they mean 1,000' AGL. If you mean quite literally you'll jump 500' over anybody's traffic pattern then that's great.
All clear.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
I thought we might be talking past each other. Glad we cleared =that= up!John Herreshoff said:
Now, on to the =next= misunderstanding!
bob loblaw
New Member
John Herreshoff said:
John, you apparently are not clear. I never said it was ok to just blast across the front of a jet that is on downwind. I said to be at 500 feet above the traffic pattern if you are on the opposite side of the pattern. Now of course since I am not an idiot either, I don't advocate this if you are at an airport who has high density of Turbines or large aircraft. You would fly higher than 1,500 feet. Please John, find me one sentence in any of my posts where I said that it is perfectly OK to fly at 1,500 feet across the path of a jet that IS on downwind. I never said this and I don't appreciate you trying to put words in my mouth which I never said.
In your situation, there is a jet that could, or may be in the pattern. My situation would be an example of no jet traffic in the pattern.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
You missed the part of the thread where we were discussing about how many times jets don't have time to get onto the unicom frequency to listen for other traffic didn't ya there? Hence, you would have no idea if there is a jet on downwind or not.
Good luck out there.
Good luck out there.