Traffic Pattern Question

Dazzler

Dazzler

Well-Known Member
I would like to know how you CFIs teach non-towered airport pattern entry, specifically the portion between circling the field at TPA+500 feet and becoming established on the 45 degree inbound to the downwind leg.

If the traffic pattern is standard (left turns), which way do you circle the windsock? To the left or right?

When do you start the 45 degree outbound leg? How far do you fly before turning inbound? Do you make a radio call on the outbound leg, and if so, what do you say? Do you turn left or right on to the inbound leg?

Thanks!
 
I'm trying to get a picture of what you are talking about. Are you talking about circling the windsock to get a read on wind (there's no AWOS and Unicom and no other pilots in the pattern to clue you in) and then going back to enter on a 45? That's the assumption in my answer. The other assumption is yours - left hand traffic in the pattern.

The turn around the windsock is above the traffic pattern. You are out of the pattern, so it really doesn't matter. Besides, what if there are multiple runways and some are left hand and other are right? We're out of a one-size-fits-all situation. I'll circle in the direction that gives me the best visibility.

I don't do a 45° outbound leg. I do an outbound leg that is 90° off the downwind. That lets me do a teardrop turn that puts me on a clean 45° entry to the pattern. The direction of turn on the teardrop depends on the pattern. Left pattern means right teardrop turn.

I usually do that turn at least 3 miles from the airport.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
The turn around the windsock is above the traffic pattern. You are out of the pattern, so it really doesn't matter. Besides, what if there are multiple runways and some are left hand and other are right? We're out of a one-size-fits-all situation. I'll circle in the direction that gives me the best visibility.

I don't do a 45° outbound leg. I do an outbound leg that is 90° off the downwind. That lets me do a teardrop turn that puts me on a clean 45° entry to the pattern. The direction of turn on the teardrop depends on the pattern. Left pattern means right teardrop turn.
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:yeahthat:

As for the radio calls, just make it clear and logical. When almost ready to turn inbound or when turning inbound I would say something like:

"Springfield traffic, Cessna 123, two miles north of the field, will be entering left downwind runway niner, Springfield."

Then, as you're actually entering the pattern, turning onto the downwind, say:

"Springfield traffic, Cessna 123, entering left downwind runway niner, full stop landing, Springfield."
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
I don't do a 45° outbound leg. I do an outbound leg that is 90° off the downwind. That lets me do a teardrop turn that puts me on a clean 45° entry to the pattern. The direction of turn on the teardrop depends on the pattern. Left pattern means right teardrop turn.
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Exactly how I teach it!
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
I don't do a 45° outbound leg. I do an outbound leg that is 90° off the downwind. That lets me do a teardrop turn that puts me on a clean 45° entry to the pattern. The direction of turn on the teardrop depends on the pattern. Left pattern means right teardrop turn.

I usually do that turn at least 3 miles from the airport.
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ditto except at a slow field I'll do a teardrop just past where I'd normally enter downwind on a 45.
 
I teach the students to enter the pattern coming from the oppisite direction to fly over mid-field at TPA and enter the downwind from there. A little unortadox, but thats common practice a GKY because of the all the traffic coming from the other side. I dont like the teardrop entry thingy.
 
ryanmickG said:
I teach the students to enter the pattern coming from the opposite direction to fly over mid-field at TPA and enter the downwind from there. A little unortadox, but thats common practice a GKY because of the all the traffic coming from the other side. I don't like the teardrop entry thingy.
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Not that unorthodox. It's done at a lot of places (I learned it when I did my initial training at 7B2 and always wondered why it never made the AIM "approved" list.

But it doesn't really answer the original poster's question which starts with circling the windsock from above before deciding which runway to use.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
But it doesn't really answer the original poster's question which starts with circling the windsock from above before deciding which runway to use.
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Thanks for the responses so far.

I'd like to know something else - when do you typically put the gear down? When circling the windsock? When making the teardrop turn? Or some other time?

Thanks again!
 
You're likely to get a bunch of different answers to the gear down question. They generally gravitate to two schools, (a) before entering the airport environment and (b) when about to descend from pattern altitude, but there are probably a whole bunch in between. And I think that only starts to answer your question.

I'm a "runway environment" guy. For me "gear down" is part of my normal process of slowing to pattern speed, and I usually get to pattern altitude and airspeed about 3 miles from the pattern, so my gear normally goes down there.

Even under this approach there are two choices. Before viewing the sock since you're not likely to be doing that at cruise anyway, and as you approach pattern altitude on the teardrop descent. Both are reasonable.

I'd put the gear down before viewing the sock.
 
Dazzler said:
I'd like to know something else - when do you typically put the gear down?
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I do it as I enter the pattern, so usually midfield downwind. But as Midlife said, this can vary quite a bit between pilots.

I like the way I do it because I'll select gear down as I enter the pattern, then by the time the gear is actually down and locked, it's time to reduce the power and start descending, abeam the numbers. This method also keeps you from "dragging" the gear around for a long time. Nothing really wrong about having the gear out early--it just feels awkward to me, so I avoid it.

Whatever you do, have a reason for doing it.
 
jrh said:
I do it as I enter the pattern, so usually midfield downwind. But as Midlife said, this can vary quite a bit between pilots.

I like the way I do it because I'll select gear down as I enter the pattern, then by the time the gear is actually down and locked, it's time to reduce the power and start descending, abeam the numbers. This method also keeps you from "dragging" the gear around for a long time. Nothing really wrong about having the gear out early--it just feels awkward to me, so I avoid it.

Whatever you do, have a reason for doing it.
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Always at midfield. Why?
Because the UND stand. manual says so. No other reason.

I also am not fond of "dragging the gear" if the pattern gets extended, however the check airman for my CFI disagreed Grrrr.
 
I like to put my gear down when I know I have the field made. That is generally on the 45, about a mile out. Mainly because if my engine quits I can make the field. But it always differs depending on what type of airplane you are flying and how heavy you are.
 
I'm a midfield-downwind guy. That's when I'm starting to get the airplane configured for landing.

I check it turning base.

And when established on base.

And turning final.

And short final.

Hey, you can never be too sure! ;)
 
I'm a midfield before flaps, can't do the flaps until the gear is down and locked because you can't take your hand off the lever until it's locked, then final check guy, "mix rich/prop high RPM/gear down and locked/flaps 40"

but it's all a product of one's training, isn't it?
 
Ditto Lloyd on the gear. I usually put it down midfield downwind and check it like I'm paranoid.

As far as pattern entries in GKY, don't worry. ATP students will tell you how to do it, right Ryan?
 
When I was instructing, it was midfield downwind every time. Then multiple checks before landing including "green guts" (3 green lights, Guts = mixture and prop) on final.
 
averyrm said:
When I was instructing, it was midfield downwind every time. Then multiple checks before landing including "green guts" (3 green lights, Guts = mixture and prop) on final.
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"Guts"? Or "Gump(s)"?

Gas (selectors on mains, pumps on low)
Undercarraige (3 green, no red)
Mixtures (rich)
Props (forward)
(some people add Seatbelts)

is what I was taught.

I also always do a "fence check" crossing the airport boundary; "3 green and cleared to land?"
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Not that unorthodox. It's done at a lot of places ... and always wondered why it never made the AIM "approved" list.
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Actually, it WAS in the AFM as an approved entry. (ie. crosswind and turn left to enter downwind)

The AFM used to state that you were allowed to cross midfield at Traffic Pattern Altitude (and giving way to traffic already on downwind), and turn left (left traffic) to enter the downwind.

Adding 500 feet is a dangerous practice because is places you in the turbine aircrafts pattern altitude (1500 AGL).

It is a lot safer to cross at pattern alt and turn left, than to cross and do a right 270 in front of other arriving aircraft. There is no difference in the "alternate" entry than when you are doing laps in the pattern. When you are doing circuits, do you exit the pattern and re-enter on the 45? Or do you turn crosswind to downwind? (Like I don't know the answer).

Either way, be safe out there.


PS....I never circled the windsock. I just fly a downwind leg and look at it. If the wind favors the runway you picked...land. If not, transition to the other downwind and land on that runway.
 
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