Orange Anchor
New Member
Has anyone heard what LTF decided to do?
Tracking to USAF heavies: Any advice on which airframe?
- Thread starter learningtofly
- Start date
You'd be amazed the number of guys who can't transition, either with hands or attitude-wise.
ryan1234
Desensitized Member
Obviously they weren't trained at Flight Safety before...
Orange Anchor
New Member
Accurate comment. Having been in all three major communities (military, gen av (135,91), airline) it is easy to see that each has its own specific requirements and as you have noted, Mike, some adapt to the different cultures. Some don't.
We had one Capt who had flown a few combat sorties and every flight was as if we were 'going downtown'. It was a bad joke.
ryan1234
Desensitized Member
Trust me, I believe you. I thought I was at least a marginal to above marginal pilot - that is until the T-38 sim ride. Amazing how my brain and my hands just weren't able to perform simple things, despite being spoon-fed instructions on what I was doing wrong. UPT is going to be a challenge. Hopefully with enough extra sim sessions, hard study, etc it'll turn out alright.
I just really wish I could totally lose this civie time thought process of "well in X airplane, it handles like this" - in some misguided attempt to rationalize piss-poor performance. Guess the AF has been training a good quality product for a long time, so if they can take someone with performance like mine and turn them into a good pilot - I'm all ears.
Thats how it works friend. Thats a jet you have really be ahead of. Try doing a low-level Nav route at 480 kts and 500 AGL, with a 1:250 map, clock, compass, and have to think ahead of the 8 miles a minute you're already doing. Some people can, some people can't.
Then again, if you go T-1s, you don't have to worry about any of the above......
You have to get your mind twisted on right, and put yourself back in full student mode; realizing that whatever experience you already have is merely icing on the cake for you...NOT a replacement for what you have to learn. I went to UPT with 4300 hours and an ATP, but I had the above mindset and it was no problem. I saw others with Commercial/CFI, etc and a good number of hours who couldn't separate the civvie flying from military and washed out.
Know that you suck going in, and everything in there is a climb up from there.
JPilot9
Well-Known Member
You have to get your mind twisted on right, and put yourself back in full student mode; realizing that whatever experience you already have is merely icing on the cake for you...NOT a replacement for what you have to learn. I went to UPT with 4300 hours and an ATP, but I had the above mindset and it was no problem. I saw others with Commercial/CFI, etc and a good number of hours who couldn't separate the civvie flying from military and washed out.
Know that you suck going in, and everything in there is a climb up from there.
In my UPT class there are seven of us with at least a PPL. Our performances have run the gamut from worst to first in the class. MikeD's right - put yourself back in student mode. BUT, don't throw your civilian experience out the window as worthless or stupid. True, it probably won't help you too much with mission specifics in the T-6 (unless you did ELP stalls in a Cessna). But hopefully you've build up good situational awareness, comm, checklist discipline, and decision making skills. Those types of things you should (humbly) take to the flight line.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
I'd suspect (no prior knowledge on the subject) that training there is going to be like any other training.
#1 Shut the hell up and do what you're told (they don't care how you used to do it)
#2 If you don't understand what you're told, clarify
#3 Study
#4 Learn from your inevitable screw ups so as to minimize future screw ups.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
To be fair, your sim ride was above average for a dude who'd never flown a pointy-nosed jet before.
My comment that the Talon was "the great equalizer" and the "man-boy separator" wasn't just made in jest; I have seen studs of all different backgrounds with experience that runs the gamut from nothing outside Phase II SUPT all the way to multi-thousand hour major airline captains come through the T-38 program, and they've all had the same reaction to the T-38 you did. Very, very few get in and get the hang of it in their first hour...and even IF they were to feel like they had it in the bag during that first hour, chances are they'd feel the sting of total humiliation at some time in the next couple hours (just wait for the no-flap and single-engine patterns/landings!).
The lesson to take from it is not "I suck" (although that's an important lesson for all budding fighter pilots to internalize), but "I can't get by on my experience, I have to pay attention and learn." Remember, although hands are certainly a significant aspect of success at SUPT, mental attitude is equally as important in the recipe.
As a former Commander of mine (ex-POW and damn good fighter pilot, too) used to say, "Attitude...have a good one, don't cop one."
BAMCIS
Well-Known Member
I came into primary with 300 hours, 100 multi, instrument, commercial... I came in with the attitude of "I don't know anything, I am learning from scratch." So far, I have been fairly rocking primary (It's early; given enough time, I am sure I will f something up. Knock on wood.) My peers have looked at my performance and said, "Well of course, you were a pilot before you got here." But the truth is, my civilian time has done me almost zero good. I try very hard to keep my mouth shut, my ears open, to know my procedures cold, to know my briefing items inside and out...
The few times my civilian experience has helped me have been completely by accident. Trim, knowing what to anticipate from a single engine, straight-wing aircraft, and conceptualizing the radio procedures are really the only areas. I am not doing an adequate job because I was a civilian pilot, I am doing an adequate job (so far) because I am doing exactly what I am told and concentrating on correcting myself when I receive feedback from the instructors. Oh, and I am studying my ASS off.
The few times my civilian experience has helped me have been completely by accident. Trim, knowing what to anticipate from a single engine, straight-wing aircraft, and conceptualizing the radio procedures are really the only areas. I am not doing an adequate job because I was a civilian pilot, I am doing an adequate job (so far) because I am doing exactly what I am told and concentrating on correcting myself when I receive feedback from the instructors. Oh, and I am studying my ASS off.
HuggyU2
Well-Known Member
bunk22
Well-Known Member
I still say it depends whether or not you have "it" or not. If you have "it", you will do well with the appropriate work and study, regardless of flight time.
C-182 flyer
Well-Known Member
Bunk is right. I have seen guys with tons of prior flight time suck really bad, and I have seen guys with absolutely no prior flight time rock the program. The prior time should get you into the T-45, but after that, everyone will be equal. By the time guys made it to us in the RAG, most of those who did well in primary because of their prior flight time had been humbled already while flying the T-45. That prior time can hold guys back sometimes if they cannot break bad habits since the military way of flying is so different from the civilian world. Keep this attitude and get those practice sims, then even if you do hit a snag, seeing that you are proactive will help you survive.
bunk22
Well-Known Member
As a T-45C IP, I'm starting to see how those 50 vs 70 NSS guys out of primary start to even out as well. It's just more dynamic flying and just being excellent at BI/RI/AN will only get you so far. Seems to me, at least in Phase I, the forms are the great equalizer.
BTW, as a former prop guy who spent pretty much 11 years or so straight flying props (C-2A's to T-34C's as an IP), then another 1.5 years out of the cockpit, it was tough coming back into the 45.....can't teach an old dog new tricks is the appropriate phrase I think. I hadn't flown training jets in 14 years and it was tough for me as I did the standard syllabus that all tailhookers do. P-3 or E-6 types go through Phase 1 training, then go through the phase I IUT syllabus, having over 100 hours in the jet by that time. I had 35 hours at the end of my IUT training. My old habits were hard to break and staying ahead of the aircraft was tough, at first. My point to all of this is that I can see were habits developed (good or bad) can be difficult to break, especially in a finite amount of time that is flight school.