Tracking to USAF heavies: Any advice on which airframe?

Hacker15e said:
Musta been a phenomenal pattern!
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You jet jocks have got to get your mind out of the gutter! Now, once we landed and headed downstairs, well, a bit more gutter like but you know, that's navy :D

My story was a bit lame, it's just hard to explain. Once the squadron changed, so the did the attitude. Granted, the front office has some blame for that.
 
I am thoroughly comforted that there are still those with the mentality of "knife in the teeth warfighters". As an untainted, not yet disillusioned JO, I still labor under the illusion that selfless service and contributing to the fight rank somewhere near the top of our list of priorities. Call me naive...
 
BAMCIS said:
I am thoroughly comforted that there are still those with the mentality of "knife in the teeth warfighters". As an untainted, not yet disillusioned JO, I still labor under the illusion that selfless service and contributing to the fight rank somewhere near the top of our list of priorities. Call me naive...
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Exceptionally naive, but not of your making. Though I too wish it could be that way.
 
Hacker15e said:
There's many times a big difference between "want" and "have a legitimate possibility to get".

But all that aside...the dude's stated objective was to "not work too hard", so what makes you think he'd want to go to shooter communities where you have to work hard??

Sure as hell wouldn't fit in.
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eh, it was in quotes. Proximity of white sand beaches, youth etc. This isn't a new phenomenon- and what made a tool a tool wasn't a gold oak leaf but the preachy father knows best. Big brother cool, dad not as effective. I think in both Navy and AF there is a lifestyle (per diem, hotels, see the world) vs "cool flying, cool airframe". That I think is what the OP is getting at and leaning to the former. Basically calling him out as lazy is a bit of a reach based on his comments, I would say par for the course. Your comments though are perfectly valid, and said individual will find out. The military usually has a way to get guys with the program.

C-182 flyer said:
(Navy Perspective) What I remember from flight training is that everyone wanted jets in the beginning, but once the writing was on the wall about half way through primary and people did not have the grades, they suddenly "wanted" P-3 or Helo. If you don't want to work, don't try and go to a fighter squadron because someone else is going to have to pick up your slack.
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When I went through NFO training early 90s they had swapped Nav training from Mather to Randolph and shut off the pipeline. They were telling us the A-6 was going away and the F-14 would be around only 10-12 years. In our case there was a lot of guys that wanted MPA pipeline and it went on grades primarily the top 4 requested p-3s (I was number 3) and 1,3,4,5 got it. #2 torpedoed himself. Our XO told us on the dream sheet that as a p-3 guy, he didn't want to hear "I don't want to go to the boat", as a reason. So I researched the mission, got decent grades and got it. #2 guy said "I just got married and don't want to go to the boat.
 
granlistillo said:
eh, it was in quotes. Proximity of white sand beaches, youth etc. This isn't a new phenomenon- and what made a tool a tool wasn't a gold oak leaf but the preachy father knows best. Big brother cool, dad not as effective. I think in both Navy and AF there is a lifestyle (per diem, hotels, see the world) vs "cool flying, cool airframe". That I think is what the OP is getting at and leaning to the former. Basically calling him out as lazy is a bit of a reach based on his comments, I would say par for the course. Your comments though are perfectly valid, and said individual will find out. The military usually has a way to get guys with the program.



When I went through NFO training early 90s they had swapped Nav training from Mather to Randolph and shut off the pipeline. They were telling us the A-6 was going away and the F-14 would be around only 10-12 years. In our case there was a lot of guys that wanted MPA pipeline and it went on grades primarily the top 4 requested p-3s (I was number 3) and 1,3,4,5 got it. #2 torpedoed himself. Our XO told us on the dream sheet that as a p-3 guy, he didn't want to hear "I don't want to go to the boat", as a reason. So I researched the mission, got decent grades and got it. #2 guy said "I just got married and don't want to go to the boat.
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P3s are the bomb diggety. That'd be my #1 choice if I was gonna go fly navy. Best possible lifestyle, kick ass flying, and gallivanting about the earth? Hell yeah. Plus, you get to kill submarines. You're basically a giant scaled up dauntless that can't land on carriers. Those guys have a hell of a lot of fun, I see them in EUG all the time just flying approaches and the like, the P3 is a badass machine.

Second choice? Probably pointy nose stuff if I was qualified, just because it'd be a hell of an experience. After that, the Cod, that kind of lifestyle looks like it'd be fun.
 
Yes, as nav, I was looking for qol. My squadron tour was in Rota Spain with month long detachments to the island of Crete or Sicily, where we got perdiem to drink up.
Life was terrible. :(
 
Hacker15e said:
Am I reading that right that I'm a tool for calling out what I perceived was an attitude based on his post?
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No Hacker my bad I did not write very clearly. You are not a tool. I was talking about the perspective of a lt (JOPA) vs an o-4 and senior. I am saying you are correct, and that he (like I) probably won't listen and will have to learn. That said, I do think you were a little hard on him, and that these are questions and attitudes are typical of El-Tees, shave tails or butterbars. Bless their hearts. :)
 
ppragman said:
P3s are the bomb diggety. That'd be my #1 choice if I was gonna go fly navy. Best possible lifestyle, kick ass flying, and gallivanting about the earth? Hell yeah. Plus, you get to kill submarines. You're basically a giant scaled up dauntless that can't land on carriers. Those guys have a hell of a lot of fun, I see them in EUG all the time just flying approaches and the like, the P3 is a badass machine.

Second choice? Probably pointy nose stuff if I was qualified, just because it'd be a hell of an experience. After that, the Cod, that kind of lifestyle looks like it'd be fun.
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Nothing wrong with that but try to ask around before hand, ask P-3 drivers what they think of the community. Some will be bitter but try to get a large cross section. I don't hear a lot of good things about the community, even from thsoe who stay in it.
 
ryan1234 said:
Wonder how much fun the 3rd Pilot has...
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Who cares? He's got a decent quality of life when he's not flying, and when he's "riding" around he gets to visit strange and jacked up places in the world.

bunk22 said:
Nothing wrong with that but try to ask around before hand, ask P-3 drivers what they think of the community. Some will be bitter but try to get a large cross section. I don't hear a lot of good things about the community, even from thsoe who stay in it.
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Really, that's unfortunate. I'm still not going to "military" it up for another couple years if I do join, personally, I've still got some wildness and spam can flying to get out of the way before I started doing dangerous duties for Uncle Sam. What's the latest a guy can apply again?
 
bunk22 said:
Nothing wrong with that but try to ask around before hand, ask P-3 drivers what they think of the community. Some will be bitter but try to get a large cross section. I don't hear a lot of good things about the community, even from thsoe who stay in it.
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They are still on track to get the 73??
With the demise of the USSR sub threat they fell on hard times, but when I left they had some good ISR kit and could shoot a lot of weapons. I think the maritime patrol mission is probably a lot different than 20 yrs ago. MJG would be a guy to ask.

ppragman said:
Who cares? He's got a decent quality of life when he's not flying, and when he's "riding" around he gets to visit strange and jacked up places in the world.
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IIRC on a 10 hr flight it would work out to 5 or 6.6 hours in the seat depending if the 2p had an AC designation. That is all 4 engine heavy Tprop time.
 
ppragman said:
P3s are the bomb diggety. That'd be my #1 choice if I was gonna go fly navy. Best possible lifestyle, kick ass flying, and gallivanting about the earth? Hell yeah. Plus, you get to kill submarines. You're basically a giant scaled up dauntless that can't land on carriers. Those guys have a hell of a lot of fun, I see them in EUG all the time just flying approaches and the like, the P3 is a badass machine.
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Without having actually experienced that stuff, I think it's tough to say if you'd really like it or not. It's sort of like looking at an attractive woman and saying you want to marry her, but without ever even talking to her (just hearing what other people say about her).

I found that my perception of how my community was going to be before I got there varied significantly from what I found, and even more of what it was like over time.
 
bunk22 said:
However, what I saw quite a bit during my last tour was acceptance of mediocrity....for example, breaking the deck.
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I was really trying to follow what "breaking the deck" means, but am just not getting it. Would you mind explaining it in a way a dumb army helo guy would understand? ;)

Orange Anchor said:
Friend of mine is now an instructor and occasionally works with USAF guys transitioning into ____. He said, "Some just don't seem to care." Asked to explain he said they have open boxes that are available to practice in but no one uses them. One guy said, " I brought my wife along and so I will be spending time with her, not doing training." This could be understood if these guys were ace of the base but my friend said the only thing they seem to care about is along the line of the old maximum, "If it wasn't good enough, it wouldn't be the minimum." Min passing for them is just fine. ????
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In the AF pilots can choose weather they train or not?
 
Ian J said:
In the AF pilots can choose weather they train or not?
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He said that the sims are "available for practice"....meaning voluntary extracurricular training outside the syllabus.

Most guys do it so they can stay on top of things or get ahead.
 
Ian J said:
I was really trying to follow what "breaking the deck" means
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Day VFR manuever to land on the CVN. Come in smoking hot (ok cruise) upwind of the boat and conduct a high AOA bank (70-85 DOB?) 180 degree turn to quickly slow you down at the appropriate pattern altitude and position so you can through all stuff out abeam and do a tight approach turn rolling out and making a pass. If done well, you are on the carrier lickety split.
 
granlistillo said:
Day VFR manuever to land on the CVN. Come in smoking hot (ok cruise) upwind of the boat and conduct a high AOA bank (70-85 DOB?) 180 degree turn to quickly slow you down at the appropriate pattern altitude and position so you can through all stuff out abeam and do a tight approach turn rolling out and making a pass. If done well, you are on the carrier lickety split.
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Close. If you are coming in "smoking" hot, you better break at the round down or everyone is going to laugh at you, and you better be bringing 6 bills, well at least 550. Hopefully you will get the gear down by the 45.

Breaking the deck is the first plane to land out of the stack for the cycle.
 
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