ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
Damn. Where is that?
Total time question
- Thread starter Maximilian_Jenius
- Start date
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
No not a trick question. I've long been told (in the recent past) that using dual received, SIC, PIC, night, day, simulated instrument, x-country. et al. Is akin to double dipping. Because they're already counted for in your SEL & MEL times. I.E of my combined 455 SEL & MEL. I as an example have 323 hrs. of PIC. And that those other columns are simply asking for specific, or specialized flight time, not a total. If that makes sense. And thus they can't be used toward total time. Which is why I've sought out clarification with this thread. I've as I originally stated in the first post, I've just been solely using SEL and MEL time added together to equal my total time.
Last edited:
Am I having a stroke or does this not make any sense whatsoever?
Stuff like night/day, IMC/VMC would be totally separate within a flight. Whoever is telling you this is making things way harder than they need to be.
Absolutely. I come from the time when they were common, many small airports only had them because they were cheap to have pre-GPS. Like riding a bike, you never forget them.
4 or 5 of them left in AZ that I can think of off the top of my head.
Agreed. Add up the aircraft times, not the flight condition times, for grand total of flight time. Like Jordan said, the flight conditions are already part of the aircraft times. Trying to add all of those up into total time, makes the total time super-inflated and not at all true.
As it comes to adding the aircraft times, ensure that you don’t also double dip. For example, for me, my logbook has a column for multi-engine land, and also for jet-MEL. All my multi gets placed in the MEL column, but only turbojet MEL goes in the separate column. So for me, if I was doing what you were doing, I’d only use the MEL column time, not the subset of that.
Your logbook is something you want to ensure is not effed-up. Because if noticed in an interview, it makes you look like either you’re trying to inflate your times, or that you don’t know how to properly log flight time, or both. Both of those aren’ a good impression to make.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
I figured that or Klawock.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
KLW was almost the last man standing but they shut it down uhhhh…..yesterday morning
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
As usual, a day late and a dollar short.
DMEs were a common part of NDB approaches at military installations. Not every one, but thats where I’d see the majority of them. A useful item of info to have for an NDB, if the approach isn’t a terminal approach or otherwise time-reliant.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
You're doing it right. Total time is just that - your total time operating the controls of an aviation appliance, whether you were being taught or you were be-bopping along on an XC.
PIC, SIC, Dual-Received, XC all of these are just sub-sets...., and they do matter, and you might consider using some of those extra columns in your logbook to keep individual track of things.
Examples:
-I have historically kept two columns for XC time - one for point to point, and one for >50NM. Reason? PTP XC counts for part 135 XC, but the 50nm XC is what you need for a certificate/rating, like an ATP.
-Not strictly required, but I've kept a separate column for "ATP XC" where I flew more than 50NM but didn't land. This is, basically, a subset of the 50nm XC column.
-I have also kept a separate PIC column for 61.51 PIC time vs. time when I am the "real" PIC, and a separate "Multi PIC" time in case it ever comes up for insurance reasons (this has happened more than once.)
I've done it this way for a couple of reasons - mainly, I wanted it plain as day how I tracked my time, so that nothing was ever questionable, and I wanted clear breakdowns of my time because, before I considered pursuing 121, I needed to understand my time in the context of a 135 or 91 operation, too.
Different employers seem to want the time organized differently, too. Someone earlier mentioned Airline Apps - they do an odd thing where they break out your PIC time as a CFI separately from the rest of your time. It still gets counted in the totals, but they want to see your non-CFI PIC time. <shrug>
As long as it all adds up, that's what's important.
Two other quick bits of advice I can share on this:
- If you're keeping both a paper and electronic logbook, audit them regularly to make sure they're in alignment. Do your paper logbook in pen, but do the TOTALS in pencil, because if you have to go back and make changes, it's much easier to do cleanly.
- Put a nice, neat tab or indicator in your paper logbook for each milestone - checkride, flight review, IPC, etc - so that it's easy for an employer to take a quick look at the logbook for your qualifications. Do the same thing with endorsements and re-tests.
SrFnFly227
Well-Known Member
Do you have any time in any aircraft that isn't logged as SE or ME? I.E. did you fly 1.5, but only put 1.3 SE for some reason? If your answer is no, then add SE and ME and you get your total.
As others have mentioned, Airline Apps does some interesting math. It will ask for your PIC, SIC, instrument, night, etc. in each airplane model you have flown. It will then add up certain columns to come up with your total time. The total time that the site shows will be equal to what you have in your logbook, even though they add different columns to get there.
As others have mentioned, Airline Apps does some interesting math. It will ask for your PIC, SIC, instrument, night, etc. in each airplane model you have flown. It will then add up certain columns to come up with your total time. The total time that the site shows will be equal to what you have in your logbook, even though they add different columns to get there.
swakid8
Well-Known Member
SE + ME = Total Time
Be careful with adding up PIC, SIC, Dual Received, Dual Given if you logged those times the way the FAA allows you log those times. They will not add up to total time. For example logging PIC sole manipulator time during Dual Given after being rated in category and class will inflate your PIC time numbers. But if you have your PIC. SIC, Dual Received, Dual Given separated per application instructions generally speaking. then they should add up to total time.
XC, Night, Instrument are all conditions of flight. Do not include for adding up total time.
I really don’t like how Airline Apps or pilot credentials do their math or how to input flight times (counting dual received as SIC….). A good column I added to my log electronic logbooks was Command PIC. I would only log PIC time for when I signed for a aircraft in this column. For example, my sole manipulator PIC never got logged in my Command PIC colum.
Be careful with adding up PIC, SIC, Dual Received, Dual Given if you logged those times the way the FAA allows you log those times. They will not add up to total time. For example logging PIC sole manipulator time during Dual Given after being rated in category and class will inflate your PIC time numbers. But if you have your PIC. SIC, Dual Received, Dual Given separated per application instructions generally speaking. then they should add up to total time.
XC, Night, Instrument are all conditions of flight. Do not include for adding up total time.
I really don’t like how Airline Apps or pilot credentials do their math or how to input flight times (counting dual received as SIC….). A good column I added to my log electronic logbooks was Command PIC. I would only log PIC time for when I signed for a aircraft in this column. For example, my sole manipulator PIC never got logged in my Command PIC colum.
fholbert
Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
I see your point now. Agree, if adding night, IMC and the like to your total time you are double dipping.
Total time comes from the the type of aircraft you flying. SE, ME, HELO, Lighter than Air counts towards total time.
fholbert
Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
I’m proud my instrument ride included an NDB circle approach in high Oklahoma winds, but even in 1978 that was a dinosaur approach. Not knowing how to fly an ADF doesn’t make you any less of a pilot since they are rare as hens teeth. FWIW, I’ve never flown a lighted airway.
Last edited:
guywhoflies
Y'NO WUT IM SAYIN
Max, you are getting plenty of good responses about how to add up your flight times. I'll leave that alone.
I think you asked about putting your times on a resume, as well. I'll address that, and others can chime in if they so choose.
For a resume, I would list total time first. Then list your PIC, ME, SE, actual instrument, cross country, and night flight times. Most people use two columns on their resume for flight times.
I would tailor the resume for the job you are applying for. If they have a requirement for ME PIC hours, add a column for that.
When you are ready to start applying for jobs, ask people to look at your resume. I know we have people that have been involved in hiring, I'm sure they would be happy to help.
Good luck, we're all pulling for you!
Oh yeah, shouldn't you be studying for your CFI?
I think you asked about putting your times on a resume, as well. I'll address that, and others can chime in if they so choose.
For a resume, I would list total time first. Then list your PIC, ME, SE, actual instrument, cross country, and night flight times. Most people use two columns on their resume for flight times.
I would tailor the resume for the job you are applying for. If they have a requirement for ME PIC hours, add a column for that.
When you are ready to start applying for jobs, ask people to look at your resume. I know we have people that have been involved in hiring, I'm sure they would be happy to help.
Good luck, we're all pulling for you!
Oh yeah, shouldn't you be studying for your CFI?
Old Pete
Cockpit Authoritarian
No such thing as "Total Time". The FAA doesn't define the term. "Flight Time", and "Pilot Time" are defined. I have always assumed that when someone says "Total Time" they mean flight time, but who knows? maybe they mean "Pilot Time". But if you want to know what it means ask the person using the term, because the FAA doesn't define it.
i use the term to mean total aircraft time in all aircraft. Irrespective of all the qualifiers like PIC, instrument, etc, and definitely not including flight sim times.