Top Ten list of...

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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You can fly in VFR weather while needing to fly on instruments to maintain control... that's how I log actual anyways, if I would lose control by looking outside then I'm logging it as actual.

There is no definition of IMC in the FARs from what I can tell, only flight under IFR / VFR. Therefore, depending on how you interpret 'IMC' you could be in IMC under VFR and still be legal.

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Definition-wise, the "M" in VMC/IMC still means meterological, ie- a WX condition, not a light condition in the sense of night. IMO, there's few situations where flying by reference to outside in VMC would result in loss of control. Some night in the middle of nowhere would qualify. But my main beef is with those that log all night time as actual.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
Yeah I messed up; the FARs actually say you can log actual when two reqs are met:
-flight by ref to instruments
-instrument flight conditions (not IMC)

It makes no mention of what wx conditions must exist, so IMHO if you need to fly on instruments to maintain control you can log it as actual regardless of the weather and regardless of what ratings you hold (except students who need to see the horizon to be legal).
 

CK

Well-Known Member
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Loggin that time as actual is legal and even a private pilot can log it, read what Jeff S says in this thread.

http://www.flightsimnetwork.com/dcforum/DCForumID2/7499.html

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Your first mistake is quoting someone from Flight Sim Network...last time I checked..the only authority was the FAA....


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Read the post, there were quotes from the FAA
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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Yeah I messed up; the FARs actually say you can log actual when two reqs are met:
-flight by ref to instruments
-instrument flight conditions (not IMC)

It makes no mention of what wx conditions must exist, so IMHO if you need to fly on instruments to maintain control you can log it as actual regardless of the weather and regardless of what ratings you hold (except students who need to see the horizon to be legal).

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I can agree with that; as it's the rule in black and white too. But like I said before, the logging of the "entire" night of flying being actual, is BS to me.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
61.51

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But like I said before, the logging of the "entire" night of flying being actual, is BS to me.

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Agree
 

Looking4Lower

New Member
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Again, it could be a judgement call in the middle of the Atlantic on a moonless night, but not in everyday night flying. I used to fly the PHX-ABQ-TUS run at 2300 every other day, and it still was night VMC, even though there were times it was so dark, it felt as there was no relative motion. Still had a stars/ground semi-horizon, but a horizon nonetheless.

the FARs actually say you can log actual when two reqs are met:
-flight by ref to instruments
-instrument flight conditions (not IMC)

But like I said before, the logging of the "entire" night of flying being actual, is BS to me


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I agree with SkyGuyEd - technically loggable as IFR in my opinion. it's a technical point.

BUT I also agree that it is stupid to be using it as a scam to pad IFR time in the logbook. Out of about 110 hours "actual instrument" and about 400 hours of night time, only a very small percentage (less than 2 hours) of all that was logged according to these unusual circumstances.

Looking thru the logbook, I seem to recall that it happened during a couple legs on a cargo charter trip to Mexico (Chihuahua to be exact). I also remember that the conditions were completely horizonless - I was most definitely on the gauges that night!
 

rausda27

Well-Known Member
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Loggin that time as actual is legal and even a private pilot can log it, read what Jeff S says in this thread.

http://www.flightsimnetwork.com/dcforum/DCForumID2/7499.html

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Your first mistake is quoting someone from Flight Sim Network...last time I checked..the only authority was the FAA....


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Read the post, there were quotes from the FAA


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My bad..I figured that it was his personal opinion..as a CFI you hear all sorts of hearsay coming out of students mouths..usually i revert to ..show me where the FARS quote the nonsense coming out of your mouth and I will stand educated...
 

clear4approach

New Member
I agree, if you don't have a horizon, you don't have a horizon.
I have flown both in the clouds in the norheast and the dark of the night in the desert southwest and find both equally challenging
 

CK

Well-Known Member
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I believe Jeff S is a CFI

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as also is eatsleepfly and MikeD.

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So? I never called them simmers
 

SteveC

Really?
Staff member
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So? I never called them simmers


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Dang good thing, too - them's fightin' words, pardner!






JK
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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I believe Jeff S is a CFI

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as also is eatsleepfly and MikeD.

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So? I never called them simmers


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And you were lucky you didn't, kid.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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Unless is Level D..it isnt a sim...

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True. I shoulda said "lucky you didn't call us PC-game players"
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
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So? I never called them simmers


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Dang good thing, too - them's fightin' words, pardner!



JK

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Indeed!
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
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agree. Every second of actual in my logbook is from being in a cloud.

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Ditto here.
 

SteveC

Really?
Staff member
If you punch up through a thin layer (30 - 60 seconds in the cloud), do you log it as 0.1 hour?
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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If you punch up through a thin layer (30 - 60 seconds in the cloud), do you log it as 0.1 hour?


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That's a stretch rouding up 1 minute to 6 minutes!


Level off in the thin overcast for about 3 minutes, 1 second and you're golden
 
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