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You can fly in VFR weather while needing to fly on instruments to maintain control... that's how I log actual anyways, if I would lose control by looking outside then I'm logging it as actual.

There is no definition of IMC in the FARs from what I can tell, only flight under IFR / VFR. Therefore, depending on how you interpret 'IMC' you could be in IMC under VFR and still be legal.

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Definition-wise, the "M" in VMC/IMC still means meterological, ie- a WX condition, not a light condition in the sense of night. IMO, there's few situations where flying by reference to outside in VMC would result in loss of control. Some night in the middle of nowhere would qualify. But my main beef is with those that log all night time as actual.
 
Yeah I messed up; the FARs actually say you can log actual when two reqs are met:
-flight by ref to instruments
-instrument flight conditions (not IMC)

It makes no mention of what wx conditions must exist, so IMHO if you need to fly on instruments to maintain control you can log it as actual regardless of the weather and regardless of what ratings you hold (except students who need to see the horizon to be legal).
 
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Loggin that time as actual is legal and even a private pilot can log it, read what Jeff S says in this thread.

http://www.flightsimnetwork.com/dcforum/DCForumID2/7499.html

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Your first mistake is quoting someone from Flight Sim Network...last time I checked..the only authority was the FAA....
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Read the post, there were quotes from the FAA
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Yeah I messed up; the FARs actually say you can log actual when two reqs are met:
-flight by ref to instruments
-instrument flight conditions (not IMC)

It makes no mention of what wx conditions must exist, so IMHO if you need to fly on instruments to maintain control you can log it as actual regardless of the weather and regardless of what ratings you hold (except students who need to see the horizon to be legal).

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I can agree with that; as it's the rule in black and white too. But like I said before, the logging of the "entire" night of flying being actual, is BS to me.
 
61.51

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But like I said before, the logging of the "entire" night of flying being actual, is BS to me.

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Agree
 
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Again, it could be a judgement call in the middle of the Atlantic on a moonless night, but not in everyday night flying. I used to fly the PHX-ABQ-TUS run at 2300 every other day, and it still was night VMC, even though there were times it was so dark, it felt as there was no relative motion. Still had a stars/ground semi-horizon, but a horizon nonetheless.

the FARs actually say you can log actual when two reqs are met:
-flight by ref to instruments
-instrument flight conditions (not IMC)

But like I said before, the logging of the "entire" night of flying being actual, is BS to me


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I agree with SkyGuyEd - technically loggable as IFR in my opinion. it's a technical point.

BUT I also agree that it is stupid to be using it as a scam to pad IFR time in the logbook. Out of about 110 hours "actual instrument" and about 400 hours of night time, only a very small percentage (less than 2 hours) of all that was logged according to these unusual circumstances.

Looking thru the logbook, I seem to recall that it happened during a couple legs on a cargo charter trip to Mexico (Chihuahua to be exact). I also remember that the conditions were completely horizonless - I was most definitely on the gauges that night!
 
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Loggin that time as actual is legal and even a private pilot can log it, read what Jeff S says in this thread.

http://www.flightsimnetwork.com/dcforum/DCForumID2/7499.html

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Your first mistake is quoting someone from Flight Sim Network...last time I checked..the only authority was the FAA....
wink.gif


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Read the post, there were quotes from the FAA
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My bad..I figured that it was his personal opinion..as a CFI you hear all sorts of hearsay coming out of students mouths..usually i revert to ..show me where the FARS quote the nonsense coming out of your mouth and I will stand educated...
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I agree, if you don't have a horizon, you don't have a horizon.
I have flown both in the clouds in the norheast and the dark of the night in the desert southwest and find both equally challenging
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I believe Jeff S is a CFI

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as also is eatsleepfly and MikeD.

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So? I never called them simmers
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So? I never called them simmers
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Dang good thing, too - them's fightin' words, pardner!
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JK
 
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I believe Jeff S is a CFI

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as also is eatsleepfly and MikeD.

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So? I never called them simmers
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And you were lucky you didn't, kid.
 
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Unless is Level D..it isnt a sim...

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True. I shoulda said "lucky you didn't call us PC-game players"
 
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So? I never called them simmers
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Dang good thing, too - them's fightin' words, pardner!
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JK

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Indeed!
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agree. Every second of actual in my logbook is from being in a cloud.

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Ditto here.
 
If you punch up through a thin layer (30 - 60 seconds in the cloud), do you log it as 0.1 hour?
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If you punch up through a thin layer (30 - 60 seconds in the cloud), do you log it as 0.1 hour?
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That's a stretch rouding up 1 minute to 6 minutes!
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Level off in the thin overcast for about 3 minutes, 1 second and you're golden
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