desertdog71
Girthy Member
$24K pays all my bills for a family of 4. Guess its where I live and the whole never borrowing money thing.
Too old to start pilot career? Need advice!
- Thread starter mandyk
- Start date
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
That's good... No way that'd work here unless you had your house paid off completely and were eating canned beans for dinner. Even then...
But of course, I live in San Diego. It's expensive, but I have no intention of moving away from SoCal again.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
Yup. It is expensive to live here but that is because lots of people want to live here.
If you're good living in a place where $500 will pay for a three bedroom place, that's great! I'm happy for you.
I would be miserable in the places where that's true. And flying an airplane around 1,000 hours a year wouldn't make up for the other 7,760 hours where I'd be miserable.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Yup, I had a brand new 2-bedroom place in Lancaster, PA for the low-low price of $640/month. Had a room for the drums and everything. But, I was bored to tears 9 months out of the year, and frozen for the other 3.
Here, I can go climb, surf, ski, ride mountain bikes, hike, and everything else I'd like to do, year round (well, except ski
). When it's 15F in the rest of the country, it's 70 here. Oh, and I can catch a Padres game at Petco once in a while (we'll have to make that happen one of these times, sorry it hasn't worked out lately). It's expensive, but worth every penny. Very difficult to make it work on regional FO pay, though (some manage to make it happen mysteriously, but @Autothrust Blue has to live in Camarillo!).Maybe it's just me, but where I live has a much greater impact on my happiness than what I do for a living.
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Autothrust Blue
”…trusting ze process…”
Close to her parents, close to mine, both of them were over today to help with plumbing. What more do you need to know? (It's far less mysterious than it looks.)
Kahiona42
Well-Known Member
I live in Kailua-Kona. My wife and I bring home 42,000 a year. We have 3 kids and our monthly income is $100 too much to qualify for food stamps. However my kids eat well, our QOL is high, beachs, county pools and libraries are free. We shop carefully, live in a condo near the ocean, take good care of our vehicles and still afford to eat out or go to a movie once a month or so. And I'm starting my PPL next month. Its called budgeting and living within your means.
SeanD
Well-Known Member
You should write a book on budgeting with a family. Im sure many folks would like to know how you're accomplishing this...especially in a place like Hawaii. I know I would
My guess is your vehicles are paid for? The cars are big expenses with us. If they were both paid off, Id be living like 1980s Pablo Escobar right now.
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killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
You should write a book on budgeting with a family. Im sure many folks would like to know how you're accomplishing this...especially in a place like Hawaii. I know I would
My guess is your vehicles are paid for? The cars are big expenses with us. If they were both paid off, Id be living like 1980s Pablo Escobar right now.
Heh. I used to say that when I was making half what I do.
For most people - not all, but most - the more you make, the more you tend to spend. I think the trick is keeping it proportional.
SeanD
Well-Known Member
So true. It took me a little while to understand this concept. I got some pretty awesome stuff out of it though.
desertdog71
Girthy Member
It's amazing what you can do by delaying pleasure, paying cash for stuff, and not being a slave to the bank by borrowing.
Kahiona42
Well-Known Member
Our cars ARE paid for. An '03 and an '06, not new but decemtYou should write a book on budgeting with a family. Im sure many folks would like to know how you're accomplishing this...especially in a place like Hawaii. I know I would
My guess is your vehicles are paid for? The cars are big expenses with us. If they were both paid off, Id be living like 1980s Pablo Escobar right now.
GypsyPilot
Mohawk Town
I guess so.
Perhaps I am taking it personal, but I just find it absurd that somebody that has never done this for a day of pay (is he even a pilot?) is lecturing me on it.
The pay can be challenging, but that's really only if you're pursuing an airline career. I initially I was on the corporate pilot track, and as long as you're in an area with a lot of money (e.g. the northeast, south FL, or SoCal), and you're not a complete wet blanket of a personality, than chances are you'll find something. Hell, I was flying left seat in a jet a couple years after I got my CFI! As they say, it's all about networking (far more applicable in corporate/charter than the airlines in my experience). If it's all about pay, there are ways to make pretty decent pay fairly quickly if you have the right personality and a little bit of flexibility the first couple of years.
Really the most challenging thing can be the lifestyle, and you may or may not like it. While Tony rants on about flea bag hotels and so on, he really has no clue. There may have been a handful of times when I was in a crappy hotel, but for the most part I'm in Marriott Courtyards or better. Overall I stay in better hotels than my brother, a chemical engineer. But the lifestyle, that's a different story. It's a roller coaster life, and fairly unpredictable at times compared to the 8-5 world. You can be gone a lot, but you can also have WAY more no strings attached days off than most people. Again, some may or may not like that.
For whatever reason Tony never took the chance at this career. That's fine, but that tells me he's cut from a different cloth than myself. I pretty much had no choice, my passion for flying was so strong. I also had the confidence to give it a try, knowing that if it didn't work out I could go back to my previous career. But for somebody that never had any skin in the game to continuously lecture us on what it's like being a professional pilot, I find it annoying.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
I made the decision not to get into the career because they exploit people like you. The passion is what gets you in, and then they give you the shaft. Go back and look at the math I used. Tell me my numbers are wrong.
I'm telling you that for a lot of people, it doesn't make any sense financially and you pay a hell of a price for your passion.
And when a lot of long term pilots say they would advise their children against getting into the career, that tells me something, too.
"I do not know a single professional airline pilot who wants his or her children to follow in their footsteps." That's not me. That's Chesley Sullenberger. I think he might know what he's talking about.
I will stand by my contention that anyone going into any career needs to take a long hard look at the numbers and see if they can make it work. If you consider that a lecture, oh well.
And it's EXACTLY what the woman who posted here initially needs to hear.
I think the decisions one makes in the past have a bearing on what choices they are able to make in the present or future.
At the time I made the decision, I was ambivalent or even skeptical that it was the right choice. One of the best things (looking back at it) I did while I was in the Navy, was buy a duplex when I first got stationed in San Diego. The price was astronomical at the time when I was making $2000/month as a butterbar ensign or $2500/month as a 3d year j.g. and now I have no idea how I'd afford it now if I had to purchase it today at today's prices. If I were smarter I would have bought a sailboat first, then the duplex - the government would have bought my sailboat if I lived on it, but I wasn't that smart.
But the backup plan is if everything completely fell apart and I end up furloughed and we're both unemployed and destitute, is to move back out to Southern California into our duplex, kick out one of the tenants and live less than 1/2 mile walking distance to the Pacific Ocean, west of 5 for $100/month, with the other tenant covering the rest of the mortgage with his rent.
On regional airline new hire FO pay (say Skywest at $22/hr), it wouldn't be pretty, but it would be doable for a while until we got back on our feet - but that is only possible because I bought it 20 years ago.
At the time I made the decision, I was ambivalent or even skeptical that it was the right choice. One of the best things (looking back at it) I did while I was in the Navy, was buy a duplex when I first got stationed in San Diego. The price was astronomical at the time when I was making $2000/month as a butterbar ensign or $2500/month as a 3d year j.g. and now I have no idea how I'd afford it now if I had to purchase it today at today's prices. If I were smarter I would have bought a sailboat first, then the duplex - the government would have bought my sailboat if I lived on it, but I wasn't that smart.
But the backup plan is if everything completely fell apart and I end up furloughed and we're both unemployed and destitute, is to move back out to Southern California into our duplex, kick out one of the tenants and live less than 1/2 mile walking distance to the Pacific Ocean, west of 5 for $100/month, with the other tenant covering the rest of the mortgage with his rent.
On regional airline new hire FO pay (say Skywest at $22/hr), it wouldn't be pretty, but it would be doable for a while until we got back on our feet - but that is only possible because I bought it 20 years ago.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
That's true, but in my case with loan debt, it allowed me to get into the industry much earlier than I could had I saved and paid cash. While those who waited and saved can get away with regional FO pay easier than I ever could, I'll offset it with higher earnings at a younger age. All a balance.
But yes, my $1500/mo loan payment hurts the bottom line. I'll admit that the lowest income I could work with is $60,000/year (just by myself) to make it all work in SoCal.
A Life Aloft
Well-Known Member
I'll throw my two cents in here.....many professional careers require a few if even several years of paying dues, not making the money that you will down the road, paying back student loans, heaven forbid-living on a budget, living in a small apartment and knowing how to live within your means and sticking to that, etc. It won't kill you. It didn't kill any of us. We all managed, a lot of us quite well and we weren't scarred for life and didn't really miss out on much. In fact, looking back....some of the best times of my life were when I didn't have so many "things" to cope/deal with, be responsible for, and my life was far less complicated and far more simple. It was exciting, a challenge and I knew I was on my way to somewhere. Meanwhile, I was getting the valuable experiences that I needed, met some incredible mentors and for the most part, enjoyed myself. It was a win win as far as I am concerned.
You need a certain amount of money to live decently, but you don't need a lot of other "things" and can make do with far less than we tell ourselves we need, that in truth, we just really don't have to have. It's also not forever. Nothing is. It's a small time frame in the grand scheme of your entire life and career. Life is not always about the here and now and immediate gratification.....there is also the future, and opportunities awaiting everyone if they seek them out. Besides, the journey and what you do, see, experience and learn along the way is important and has real value.
There are also many pilots making terrific money and having a great QOL, NOT flying pax for the majors around the US too. That is no longer the end all be all of life and hasn't been for a long time. There is ex-pat work, contract flying, flying freight, firefighting flying, bush flying, law enforcement flying, news/tv flying, ferry work, corporate flying, forestry flying, governmental flying, test flying, starting a flight school, charter flying, a host really of all sorts of opportunities out there is one is willing to work hard, set goals, meet those goals, remain focused, and persevere. Too many people sit on their asses, whine and give up.Then they blame "the profession" because it all didn't happen for them quick enough.
You do the type of flying that makes you happy and satisfied. You then adjust your lifestyle around that, just like in every other profession on the planet.
If flying didn't work out for someone, for whatever reasons, sobeit. But too much bitterness and painting all aviation careers in a negative light isn't really useful for someone who is exploring, really wants to do what makes them happy/content and willing to give it a shot.
I'd much rather regret the the things I have done than the things I haven't done. And from what I can tell, this place is about not only educating/mentoring others, but supporting/helping them, being positive, helping them find solutions and encouraging them.
Many things in life are "risky". BFD. That shouldn't stop you from at least trying. Some people just are not cut out for risk or a new venture in the long term or moving or what ever. If you can't stick with it/stick it out, knowing what is involved ahead of time, best not to bother. Do what you think is safe instead. But the rewards for risk taking, and stepping outside your comfort zone can be wonderful, character building and bring other opportunities to you. The terrific thing in life is that we get the chances for do-overs. We get to make changes and seek what really makes us satisfied. We get to live our passion. It depends on how badly you want it. You either have it in you to make aviation a career or you don't. Attitude is everything. Nobody "does" anything to you. We do it to ourselves. Let's just not let our own failures/misconceptions trample on the dreams of others.
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How much is rent?