To those thinking of getting out a big private loan

[WestIndian425]

This thread is one of the best I've seen because it hits home. College loans and flight training loans are on my shoulders now and it is definitely a struggle just to stay afloat. As previously stated, do not count on upgrade in your "budgeting plans". This industry is too cyclical. I've learned the powerful lesson that living below your income is absolutely crucial. Now I'm scrambling to restructure my finances.

The fact, however, that you're still alive means that there is hope, and having learned the lesson and changing the way you think is the first step. After all, if you can change your mind, you can change your world.

 

[Itchy]

The glory days are long over for this career except for a lucky small percentage, is not the brass ring it used to be. And I do not see that changing.
There are a LOT of unhappy, disillusioned people that walk around hating the industry. "I love to fly, but I hate aviation."

To take out that kind of cabbage in todays climate borders on lunacy.

I find this forum in general puts more of a gloss on reality than many others, and that is fine - given its title and reason. But anyone considering jumping in better take frequent reality breaks. It will most likely take MANY YEARS for the industry to right itself, if it ever really does.

Dental school at state schools would not cost much more (in the grand scheme of things). I have a friend who went that route. His first paycheck getting out: $3,000.

 

[jwp_145]

There really needs to be a cap.

SLM should of never given me that large of loan all on my own. They are careless at giving these large amounts of money away. The bankruptcy laws need to be relaxed a bit for student loans. SLM should be taking a risk when they loan that amount out, just like any business. But with the bankruptcy laws they are protected and put a ball and chain on students.

There is a small provision in the bankruptcy laws for student loan. You have to prove that they will provide long term economic hardship and you must of attempted to pay on them for at least 5 years. I've herd though that it is nearly impossible to get a judge to agree to this

I suggest you read what you just said and rethink your outlook on things.

You asked for that much money. THey are a lending institution and lend money. That's what they do.

I do agree that bankruptcy laws are VERY stringent in this arena, but your outlook on those is tremendously skewed as well. Look how airlines screw employees in BK protection. Now why would it be ok for us to do that to another industry?

I started out with $50K in loans, and was tremendously lucky to receive an inheritance to cut it down to $35K. And those are all federal student loans, so I have a good interest rate.

But, I knew what I was doing when I asked for, and received, and cashed, and spent, the check from the loan company. I knew what the repayment terms wold look like. I knew what I would make in the different areas of commercial flight.

Oh wait, I realized that going to a regional making 1200 a month is ridiculous when my loan payments are 40% of that.

Appears to be a case of not looking very far ahead for you sir. As my pops said, easy to borrow...

 

[surreal1221]

Our outflow is at $2300, that's just bills (mortgage, car, loan, utilities, insurance, etc). Add on another $350 a month for food (two people), add on about $200 a month on gas (thankfully it's the summer time and my wife doesn't have to drive to work everyday), we've now got up to $2850 going out every month.

Two pay checks help, but when one of them is just barely $1400, and the other $1700. . .it cuts things really close, especially when you can't budget for the price of gas for anything anymore.

We've gone ahead and just pulled out $5000 out of one of our previous retirement accounts, and are more than willing to pay the 20% penalty, and the 10% when we file our taxes next year so that we can get ourselves out of some debt we've taken on over the past year. It was an employee plan and that 30% we will lose was essentially the 30% that they (my wife's previous employer) contributed to the plan anyway...so - whatever. Money is money, especially in today's economy.

My loan for 20k from SLM is only an $189 a month payment. . .I couldn't imagine having a payment any higher than that.

The glory days are long over for this career except for a lucky small percentage, is not the brass ring it used to be. And I do not see that changing.
There are a LOT of unhappy, disillusioned people that walk around hating the industry. "I love to fly, but I hate aviation."

To take out that kind of cabbage in todays climate borders on lunacy.

I find this forum in general puts more of a gloss on reality than many others, and that is fine - given its title and reason. But anyone considering jumping in better take frequent reality breaks. It will most likely take MANY YEARS for the industry to right itself, if it ever really does.

Dental school at state schools would not cost much more (in the grand scheme of things). I have a friend who went that route. His first paycheck getting out: $3,000.

Glad you said it. Seems anytime we try to expose the realities it ends up getting closed shortly there after. Hopefully this will be a different story.

 

[Nihon_Ni]

There really needs to be a cap.

SLM should of never given me that large of loan all on my own. They are careless at giving these large amounts of money away. The bankruptcy laws need to be relaxed a bit for student loans. SLM should be taking a risk when they loan that amount out, just like any business. But with the bankruptcy laws they are protected and put a ball and chain on students.

There is a small provision in the bankruptcy laws for student loan. You have to prove that they will provide long term economic hardship and you must of attempted to pay on them for at least 5 years. I've herd though that it is nearly impossible to get a judge to agree to this

Like i said in my post bankruptcy is not a immediate option for student loans. Its a long, hard, and nearly impossible road.

Bankruptcy is a long, hard, and nearly impossible road; and it should be -- especially for student loans.

To start with, they are not "giving these large amounts of money away". They are lending it to you for a good faith pledge of repayment. The reason student loans cannot be discharged easily in bankruptcy is because the interest rate isn't high enough to incorporate such risk. If banks had to lend these amounts to 18 year old students with no credit history and no protection from bankruptcy, guess what the interest rate would be? It sure wouldn't be the 5% that I paid on my student loans until they were paid in full. Ask Citibank for a $50,000 unsecured credit card for a 18 yr old with no credit history and see what kind of interest rate you get. Now imagine financing your education at that rate.

Personally, I think the bankruptcy laws need tightened up. What do you think happens to your debt when it is discharged in bankruptcy court? It's passed on to other customers who did pay as they promised. Why should I finance someone else's education because he chose poorly? But that's a whole different thread...

 

[whichwayisup]

Talkl to the Riddle/FlightSafety Guys. One I know has $180 grand in debt from school the other close to $300 grand!!!!!anic:

 

[Customx]

I'm sorry to hear about some of you with huge debts, but it makes me feel better about my decision to work in Korea and save up enough money so that I can pay for everything in cash.

If you have a 4 year degree and need help paying back those loans, consider teaching in Korea or Japan. You should be able to save between $20-40,000/year here. PM if you want more details.

 

[Champcar]

I suggest you read what you just said and rethink your outlook on things.

You asked for that much money. THey are a lending institution and lend money. That's what they do.

I do agree that bankruptcy laws are VERY stringent in this arena, but your outlook on those is tremendously skewed as well. Look how airlines screw employees in BK protection. Now why would it be ok for us to do that to another industry?

I started out with $50K in loans, and was tremendously lucky to receive an inheritance to cut it down to $35K. And those are all federal student loans, so I have a good interest rate.

But, I knew what I was doing when I asked for, and received, and cashed, and spent, the check from the loan company. I knew what the repayment terms wold look like. I knew what I would make in the different areas of commercial flight.

Oh wait, I realized that going to a regional making 1200 a month is ridiculous when my loan payments are 40% of that.

Appears to be a case of not looking very far ahead for you sir. As my pops said, easy to borrow...

Any business is a risk. If there was more risks involved the maybe these lending companies would think harder about who they are loaning money to and how much.

 

[jwp_145]

Any business is a risk. If there was more risks involved the maybe these lending companies would think harder about who they are loaning money to and how much.

How can you honestly sit there and say that?

Maybe the lender SHOULD think harder about who they lend money to.

But remember, you asked for their money. You borrowed it. They believed you would pay it back.

And how could there possibly be ANY more risk involved in student lending? Please tell me that.

 

[Champcar]

How can you honestly sit there and say that?

Maybe the lender SHOULD think harder about who they lend money to.

But remember, you asked for their money. You borrowed it. They believed you would pay it back.

And how could there possibly be ANY more risk involved in student lending? Please tell me that.

What risk?

Where is the risk when student loans are protected form bankruptcy. 20 year old ask for the money with out a grasp of what it really means. I'm responsible for my own actions as they should be also.

 

[HeyEng]

Holy crap, Batman!

I am SOOO happy that I decided to hang around the AF and “pay-as-I-go”. I played with the idea (several times) to get out, get the loan and *hopefully* get the cool flying job. I can only guess where I would be right now had I done that. Now with the choice that I DID make, I will have a nice pension for the rest of my life (that begins in a few short years with me still under 40), a house that will be paid off (or awfully damn close), the ratings I want without a loan payment and the ability to pretty much do whatever I want to do. I can’t imagine not having that freedom. Man, it is truly all about choices isn’t it? I couldn’t imagine sleeping at night if I had ANY loan payment @ $1500 a month!!!

The bad part here is that this is one of those situations that you can “preach” about until you’re blue in the face, but a large majority of folks (especially those under the age of about 25) won’t listen to the tales of those who have “been there done that”. I was one of those kids that knew it all and was burned in many areas ‘cause I didn’t listen. Take heed folks…is that 60K+ loan REALLY worth it?!?

One last thought…one of the guys I flew with “back in the day” got out in 1999 to go to FSA. He got a big ‘ole loan and got a pretty good job flying for an unnamed regional. 9/11 happened and he was the “victim” of flow backs. He instructed a little bit and did charter work on the side and eventually got tired of the game. He got a job with Lockheed doing mods on the C-5 but was layed off again. He threw in the towel and headed out of town with his wife and new baby. Last I heard he was working for the city water department and STILL paying on the loan he got almost 10 years ago. He was ALWAYS complaining about that stupid loan.

 

[Kristie]

There really needs to be a cap.

SLM should of never given me that large of loan all on my own. They are careless at giving these large amounts of money away. The bankruptcy laws need to be relaxed a bit for student loans. SLM should be taking a risk when they loan that amount out, just like any business. But with the bankruptcy laws they are protected and put a ball and chain on students.

There is a small provision in the bankruptcy laws for student loan. You have to prove that they will provide long term economic hardship and you must of attempted to pay on them for at least 5 years. I've herd though that it is nearly impossible to get a judge to agree to this

yea, they may need to have certain criteria caps... but don't blame SLM for your misguidance. you were guided here and on your own, chose to take out that loan and follow your own path despite well rounded opinions given (same as opinions given now). BK laws on students need to be treated just like everyone else... students are adults and therefore choose their own vices. I got caught up in my own debt problem years ago...and it's only by taking responsibility for my faults and having a support network that i don't get into those types of money problems anymore.

just seeing it the way i see it

 

[Champcar]

What make me mad is that the mortgage melt down will eventually get a bail out from the gov't. It's shame on the mortgage companies for giving adults massive variable rate mortgages that they can't afford.

Yet some how shame on young adults for accepting large student loans from student lenders.

 

[surreal1221]

The Haves keep having. . .

And the Have nots keep not having. . .

Love America til you die. . .

 

[HeyEng]

The Haves keep having. . .

And the Have nots keep not having. . .

Love America til you die. . .

Such BS man. There are few places in this world where YOU can do very well for yourself. The US is one of them...many have done it in the past, are doing it now and will do it in the future.

If people don't like it here...GTF out.

 

[jwp_145]

What make me mad is that the mortgage melt down will eventually get a bail out from the gov't. It's shame on the mortgage companies for giving adults massive variable rate mortgages that they can't afford.

Yet some how shame on young adults for accepting large student loans from student lenders.

Man you really just don't get it do you?

It's shame on the student loan company to giving money to someone trying to flake out on them. But is it their fault that you didn't do any research into repayment terms and conditions? Or that you didn't look into what you would be earning verses what you will have to pay monthly? Or that you thought you would make a lot of money in this industry? No, none of that is their fault. It is 100% your fault and no one else's. Yes, they probably were more than happy to give you the money, and your school was probably more than happy to let you spend it, but in the end the money seems to have been BORROWED, not LENT, irresponsibly.

I don't know you from Adam, but your responses in this topic suggest that you have some accountability issues. Start taking responsibility for your actions. If you can't do that, you need to go into airline management, because the world of professional aviation doesn't need another person blaming all of their shortcomings on others rather than simply owning up to it.

And that is not to say that I agree the situation with student loans... just to getting a higher education is getting out of hand, but still...

 

[HeyEng]

What make me mad is that the mortgage melt down will eventually get a bail out from the gov't. It's shame on the mortgage companies for giving adults massive variable rate mortgages that they can't afford.

Yet some how shame on young adults for accepting large student loans from student lenders.

Yeah, heaven forbid that you ACTUALLY read the paperwork BEFORE you sign it. Home ownership is NOT a right...as much as the government would like it to be.

I am tired of hearing the stories...

"I only make 50K a year, I can't afford my 650K mortgage that is going to adjust....someone help me"

 

[Champcar]

I've said multiple times that I take responsibility for my actions. I'm just stating what I think. So ####ing sorry.

Second the mortgage buyout it BS, if they are going to buy them out then the open out Pandora's box for everything else.

I'm just trying to help young ones out by telling them the reality of the situation. Telling them that they will give you a loan even if you have no way of paying it back and that if you can't pay it back you're SOL.

So just back off a bit.

 

[ready2fly]

I've said multiple times that I take responsibility for my actions. I'm just stating what I think. So ####ing sorry.

Second the mortgage buyout it BS, if they are going to buy them out then the open out Pandora's box for everything else.

I'm just trying to help young ones out by telling them the reality of the situation. Telling them that they will give you a loan even if you have no way of paying it back and that if you can't pay it back you're SOL.

So just back off a bit.

Champ, you know I respect you....and I know it's tough having to go through this.

A very similar situation happened when I completed my undergraduate degree. I had about $50K in school loans, had rent to pay, some (very small) credit card debt, groceries, a social life, etc., etc., etc...... and basically had spent my entire pay check before I even got it.

I was making squat and owing a lot and it sucked.

I, like you, knew I had to pay back those loans (in fact, I'm still paying for them)....but somehow blamed the institutions who loaned me the money when I asked for it.

I tend to agree with jwp_145 on this issue. You may not like hearing it put so bluntly (is that a word?), but it's still the truth.

Sucks - BAD - but, it's still the truth.

You may have to tighten the boot straps, get a second job, put your social life (or whatever) on hold, but you absolutely MUST get this debt paid down.

You know this. It just sucks going through it and hearing it from somebody else.

I know. I've been there.

Best of luck!! Keep us posted!

Stan

 

[tonyw]

And how could there possibly be ANY more risk involved in student lending? Please tell me that.

There is no risk.

The lender will get paid. You cannot get rid of student loan debt in bankruptcy and that's why the interest rates are low.

Look at the interest rates for most unsecured debt, even for the most credit worthy borrowers, and compare that to the interest rate for student loans.

This is because the lender knows it's getting paid.

And Champcar, I know you and I have gotten into pissing contests over things but I sympathize with you. I really do.

Those of you who are thinking of doing what he did may want to consider what he's dealing with now.

Besides, what's the rush?