To Log Or Not To Log

[MidlifeFlyer]

Why the FAA had to write the regulations such that "PIC" contradicts itself, I wish I knew (could someone enlighten me)? Logically, you'd think "PIC time" should mean the time you are the PIC. Time you're simply the flying pilot should be called something else, the USAF calls this "primary time".

Beats me. There is a historical basis for counting "sole manipulator" time toward certificates and ratings that goes back to the CAR. It used to be called "solo" time which probably caused its own problems. Why they settled on PIC as opposed to using some other term (some time in the mid-50s as I recall) may be mystery lost to the ages.

BTW, safety pilot time isn't always =definitely= PIC.

Didn't say that (or at least it may not have been clear). What I meant was that safety pilot PIC time (meaning safety pilot time that is properly logged as PIC under 61.51) is definitely Part 1 PIC time.

 

[tonyw]

Right now I am flying a Piper Warrior and within the next month or two I will be stepping up to a Beechcraft Bonanza. I have my PPL and have been logging all flight training time as PIC but when I go to the bonanza can I still log that time before I get my complex/high perf endorsement as PIC as well or only after. How many hours do I need to actually get my endorsement.

Log it.

You're allowed to.

So do it.

As for the amount of time required to get your endorsement, there's no minimum. It all depends on what your instructor thinks. If he feels like signing off on the endorsement, he will. If he doesn't, he won't.

 

[germb747]

What I meant was that safety pilot PIC time (meaning safety pilot time that is properly logged as PIC under 61.51) is definitely Part 1 PIC time.

True there.

 

[twotwowoo]

You are rated in airplane, single engine land. Log it. As others have said, look up 61.51.

Also, there is no minimum amount of time for a complex or high performance endorsement. The FAR's only state you need to "log ground and flight instruction, and receive an endorsement from an authorized instructor." You'll get the endorsement whenever your CFI feels ready to sign you off.

 

[Inverted25]

So if you dont need the endorsment than someone with a comm-multi could log PIC time in a King Air without the high altitude endorsment?

 

[Berkut]

So if you dont need the endorsment than someone with a comm-multi could log PIC time in a King Air without the high altitude endorsment?

Yes, assuming no type requirement. Even a private-multi would suffice.

 

[Inverted25]

Thats good to know I have always been told different.

 

[Berkut]

Thats good to know I have always been told different.

Just keep in mind the difference between what the FAA allows you to log as PIC, and what many employers are seeking when they want PIC experience.

 

[Inverted25]

I understand the difference between part 1 and part 61. I keep a seperate column for part 61 pic.

 

[Nihon_Ni]

It's all personal preference but I use the PIC column of my logbook to log Part 61 PIC, since that's the regulation that defines PIC for the purpose of logbooks. I use an electronic log as well as my paper book, so I keep a Pt 1 PIC column in my electronic log, along with a variety of other tallies of time that suit me.

 

[germb747]

It's all personal preference but I use the PIC column of my logbook to log Part 61 PIC, since that's the regulation that defines PIC for the purpose of logbooks. I use an electronic log as well as my paper book, so I keep a Pt 1 PIC column in my electronic log, along with a variety of other tallies of time that suit me.

Yep, that's exactly what I do. I've covered all bases, and then when a given company says they're only interested in PIC time where I was the Part 1 PIC, I don't have to go line-by-line through my logbook to calculate those hours.

Look at multicrew airplanes, say the 747 for example. There are first officers who have full type ratings--should they log the time as PIC when it's their leg and they're the "sole manipulator". The FAA says you can, but if you're no longer trying to satisfy FAA minimum times toward the ATP, what's the point?