Time on the runway?

[ClearedToTakeoff]

Is the integrity of a stop and go really to be debated? Wow... this is petty. It has a purpose, it's an approved action, and if you are cleared for it, make use of it. No point to full stop taxi back if you can just get a stop and go. Save time, get more training in. Wow

 

[PGT]

Is the integrity of a stop and go really to be debated? Wow... this is petty. It has a purpose, it's an approved action, and if you are cleared for it, make use of it. No point to full stop taxi back if you can just get a stop and go. Save time, get more training in. Wow

My thoughts exactly when reading this thread.

 

[aevfo]

So does exiting the runway & taxiing back.

When you are instructing you are in the business of teaching the students to fly, not wasting their time. It would take .1-.2 to full stop taxi-back as opposed to stop and go on the runway if tower approves.

Going back the opening post, there's no mention made of a complex aircraft or 10000ft runways, so maybe we could try sticking to the original premise and the original problem.

Guess what, you asked earlier why you would use the stop and go and someone provided you an answer. Another answer would be so you can practice performance t/o's such as short and soft field. Another may be company policy, and the list continues. Kinda surprising in 450 hours you have never done a stop and go and are unable to figure out why you would use one.

That said, if the controller has an issue with excessive time stopped on the runway, the options might be to amend the clearance to "exit the runway and taxi back for takeoff", or next time around the pattern, simply not clear a stop & go and offer either a touch & go, or a full stop-taxi back landing

 

[CN94559]

I have never really done stop n' goes, but a few instructors I've talked to like them best because...

1. you're not dealing with having to waste time taxing back to the runway, wasting students time and money
2. Some students find touch n goes too fast to be able to think about landing, cleaning up on the roll while keeping it straight on centerline, and once clean putting the power back in to take off again.

Stop n goes make a lot of sense. Done.

 

[BaronPete]

I don't see the point of stop & go. Even on a nice, long runway, why wouldn't you just do a touch & go? Or if you're needing the full stop landing, then just exit the runway & taxi back to the end- you'll come to a full stop at some point in the taxi, and you can make the controller's life a little easier.

My instructor doesn't like or condone touch and goes. According to him (he's an old retired military fellow) students will often get behind the airplane when trying to reset trim to takeoff settings, bring up flaps, push in carb heat, check instruments, etc and will result in accidents.

I'm sure most people will groan, but unless a fast aircraft is bearing down on short final, I'll do the stop and go as well if the tower is ok with it.

 

[TripSix]

Greetings,

I think I originally posted this in the wrong place, so I apologize to all for that. None the less, I here is my question;

One of the controllers at my home airport complained someone stayed on the runway too long for a stop and go. I asked how long a pilot has, and they replied 33 seconds.

This seems strange. I can't reference this in the AIM nor the 7110.65. Is this an LOA thing? Is the controller just making this up?

I'd like to know so I can pass this along to the training students and instructors.

Best,

 

[TripSix]

Greetings,

I think I originally posted this in the wrong place, so I apologize to all for that. None the less, I here is my question;

One of the controllers at my home airport complained someone stayed on the runway too long for a stop and go. I asked how long a pilot has, and they replied 33 seconds.

This seems strange. I can't reference this in the AIM nor the 7110.65. Is this an LOA thing? Is the controller just making this up?

I'd like to know so I can pass this along to the training students and instructors.

Best,

I have never seen in writing or heard of a specific time limit the pilot has on the runway when cleared for a S&G. Logic would dictate when I issue that clearance to a pilot, it is the pilot's discretion how long they stay in the "stopped" position.

That being said, if it ever mattered to me there were numerous ways to work with the pilot(s).

Simply asking the pilot how much of a delay they were going to take before rolling was the easiest.

If I needed something, I stated it. IE after getting the clearance read back "no more than 5 second delay on the runway," or something like that.

Heck, I've even given a pilot requesting a T&G a S&G instead for sequence purposes (that would come into play after he was airborn again). After getting the S&G clearance readback, I threw in a "after stopping, count to ten, then go - the delay is for sequence"

Worst case scenario, if I couldn't allow the delay on the runway, or the pilot was having trouble complying with any time restriction I'd just "unable" the S&G. Even when, at times, they would get cute and come right back and ask for the option, I'd clear them "all options except S&G."

Bottom line, I've never seen it in a reg. A complaint about a delay being too long on the runway should only happen once - as there are many ways to work with the pilot to prevent it from happening again.

 

[block30]

I have never seen in writing or heard of a specific time limit the pilot has on the runway when cleared for a S&G. Logic would dictate when I issue that clearance to a pilot, it is the pilot's discretion how long they stay in the "stopped" position.

That being said, if it ever mattered to me there were numerous ways to work with the pilot(s).

Simply asking the pilot how much of a delay they were going to take before rolling was the easiest.

If I needed something, I stated it. IE after getting the clearance read back "no more than 5 second delay on the runway," or something like that.

Heck, I've even given a pilot requesting a T&G a S&G instead for sequence purposes (that would come into play after he was airborn again). After getting the S&G clearance readback, I threw in a "after stopping, count to ten, then go - the delay is for sequence"

Worst case scenario, if I couldn't allow the delay on the runway, or the pilot was having trouble complying with any time restriction I'd just "unable" the S&G. Even when, at times, they would get cute and come right back and ask for the option, I'd clear them "all options except S&G."

Bottom line, I've never seen it in a reg. A complaint about a delay being too long on the runway should only happen once - as there are many ways to work with the pilot to prevent it from happening again.

Thank you!!

 

[FM_Weasel]

Though there are many reasons why an excessive (or perceived excessive) delay on the runway could cause sequencing issues for the controller, if that controller was aware that the timing was sensitive, a stop and go clearance shouldn't have been issued in the first place.

 

[kh15]

I'm surprised no one said this:

I do stop n go's when I want my student to practice a short field landing to either a short/soft field takeoff...saves a lot of time and makes a short field takeoff really what it is.

Peace

 

[towhook]

I have never heard of a specific maximum time on the runway. I do often see pilots spend too much time on the runway.

Outside of the training environment touch and go's are seldom performed. We use the aircraft to go somewhere and then land once, not fly patterns. There is certainly something to be said for the old school method: until you can properly perform full stop taxi backs then you don't need to be practicing touch and go's.

 

[Orange Anchor]

Brilliant. Since it's at night, you're neither certain of how much runway you used landing & stopping, nor how much is left to take off

Why?

 

[DAV0]

For those of you that are instructors, how long do you plan on being on the runway when you preform a S&G? Though there may not be a specific time limit, 33 seconds seems like a long time to be stopped on the runway. Or am I reading the OP wrong and from TD to TO was 33 seconds total?

 

[PFGiardino]

...

Flaps, trim, full power. That takes about 4 seconds. I read it as being stopped in one place for 33 seconds, which would be most inconsiderate.

STOP AND GOES ARE COMPLETELY UNSAFE YOU CAN'T BE PILOT NO MORE GIVE ME YOUR CERTIFICATES RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE. There's a new one of these every week.

 

[philipp]

I am just a student here, but I have a question.
Of what use is the runway behind you on such a, lets call it intersection takeoff or stop and go?
I always use the maximum available.

 

[PFGiardino]

I am just a student here, but I have a question.
Of what use is the runway behind you on such a, lets call it intersection takeoff or stop and go?
I always use the maximum available.

I understand that argument, but as you build more experience you'll become more comfortable with what the airplane can and will do, and it will be a non-issue. You'll learn your personal and your airplane's boundaries and how to operate efficiently within them; in other words, practicality has a lot to do with it. Are you really going to taxi two miles to full length? Flying is risk management, and if you have reason to doubt the integrity of your engine, your skills, or whatever on takeoff, then you shouldn't be doing so.

 

[///AMG]

I am just a student here, but I have a question.
Of what use is the runway behind you on such a, lets call it intersection takeoff or stop and go?
I always use the maximum available.

Like the previous poster said, doing S&G's or (roll and gos as we do on occasion) adds to you skillset. They give you practice in a more max performance type of takeoff (minimum runway remaining) and especially roll and gos also allow you to see that if you needed to reject a landing once on the runway, you have the performance capabilities to do it without driving into the overrun. If you just do full length takeoffs and landings to an 8 or 10k ft runway all the time, you really get no experience or practice with this.

 

[clestudentpilot]

I am just a student here, but I have a question.
Of what use is the runway behind you on such a, lets call it intersection takeoff or stop and go?
I always use the maximum available.

You also have to look at the situation. I did a few of them once on a runway that is 9000' long. If I land, and am stopped in 1000' to 1500', that still leaves me 7500' to 8000', which is more than enough in a 172. What is the difference between that, and taking off on a runway full length that is 7500' long. There is no difference. Where I did my training at, the runway was only 2300' long, so if 7500' isn't enough in a S&G, then 2300' isn't even close to enough. Also, if you are purely talking about an intersecting takeoff, sometimes it is just in the best interested of everyone. If you are departing from a busy airport, and told to taki to an intersection for takeoff, and you have 5000' of runway available to you, why not accept it. Especially since if you request full length, you may add up to 15 minutes or more to your taxi time, because you may find yourself behind a line of jets waiting to takeoff.

I am not saying this to invalidate your argument. Runway behind you is useless, but that doesn't mean that you need to use full length on every takeoff at every airport, you have to look at the situation. You develop your own personal minimums for things. Like for a T&G is something like a 172, my personals minimum is a runway 3500' long. Some guys may say "Thats crazy I can do it on a 2500' runway" My response to them is something like "good for you, what does that have to do with my comfort limit" Also, I will never do an intersecting takeoff at an uncontrolled field, and I will never TIPH at an uncontrolled airport. Others may do it, but I am not comfortable doing it. (I personally think it is stupid to TIPH at an uncontrolled field. You can't see what is behind you on final, and you don't have a set of eyes from the controller keeping an eye on you. There is a reason why TIPH is very tightly regulated by the FAA at controlled fields, and why there have been periods of time where it has been taken away from all controlled fields.)

 

[SoonerAv8r]

My guess to the OP is that the controller may have had other aircraft in the vicinity and that the time was an estimate of how much time they had before the stop & go affected the other incoming traffic.

Either that or the controller was BS'ing you. It happens...

 

[PeterPilot]

I don't see the point of stop & go. Even on a nice, long runway, why wouldn't you just do a touch & go? Or if you're needing the full stop landing, then just exit the runway & taxi back to the end- you'll come to a full stop at some point in the taxi, and you can make the controller's life a little easier.

Night currency.

Tailwheel currency.

Reconfigure the aircraft without before takeoff without the danger of pulling the gear by accident.

Optimize training time.