Time on the runway?

block30

block30

Well-Known Member
Greetings,

I think I originally posted this in the wrong place, so I apologize to all for that. None the less, I here is my question;

One of the controllers at my home airport complained someone stayed on the runway too long for a stop and go. I asked how long a pilot has, and they replied 33 seconds.

This seems strange. I can't reference this in the AIM nor the 7110.65. Is this an LOA thing? Is the controller just making this up?

I'd like to know so I can pass this along to the training students and instructors.

Best,
 
I've never heard of any such time limit, however until you clear the runway, the controller can't clear anybody else to land.

Also not sure what you mean by stop-and-go's. Was the pilot landing, stopping on the runway & then taking off again without exiting the runway?
 
I don't see the point of stop & go. Even on a nice, long runway, why wouldn't you just do a touch & go? Or if you're needing the full stop landing, then just exit the runway & taxi back to the end- you'll come to a full stop at some point in the taxi, and you can make the controller's life a little easier.
 
My school does stop and goes to meet the "full stop" landing requirement at night, although I think it defeats the purpose and full stop taxi backs should be used.
 
tjvpa28 said:
My school does stop and goes to meet the "full stop" landing requirement at night, although I think it defeats the purpose and full stop taxi backs should be used.
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Brilliant. Since it's at night, you're neither certain of how much runway you used landing & stopping, nor how much is left to take off
 
Mike H said:
until you clear the runway, the controller can't clear anybody else to land.
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Not necessarily:

From "The Book"

3-10-3. SAME RUNWAY SEPARATION
a. Separate an arriving aircraft from another
aircraft using the same runway by ensuring that the
arriving aircraft does not cross the landing threshold
until one of the following conditions exists or unless
authorized in para 3-10-10, Altitude Restricted Low
Approach.
1. The other aircraft has landed and is clear of
the runway. Between sunrise and
sunset, if you can determine distances by reference to
suitable landmarks and the other aircraft has landed,
it need not be clear of the runway if the following
minimum distance from the landing threshold exists:
REFERENCE-
P/CG Term- Clear of the Runway.
Same Runway Separation
(a) When a Category I aircraft is landing
behind a Category I or II- 3,000 feet.
(b) When a Category II aircraft is landing
behind a Category I or II- 4,500 feet.
Click to expand...
 
Mike H said:
Brilliant. Since it's at night, you're neither certain of how much runway you used landing & stopping, nor how much is left to take off
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When you have a 10,600 ft runway you don't really care about that in a 172 unless you landed in the amber lights at the end of the runway.
 
Mike H said:
I don't see the point of stop & go.
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Say I want to practice a short field landing. I come to a stop and then want to do a soft field take off. Or another reason that works just fine-because I wanted to.

Mike H said:
Even on a nice, long runway, why wouldn't you just do a touch & go?
Click to expand...
Stop and go's are just another way for the student to get used to the airplane. Plus its nice to shake it up once and a while. Stop and go, touch and go's, full stop taxi backs...variety is nice.

Mike H said:
Or if you're needing the full stop landing, then just exit the runway & taxi back to the end- you'll come to a full stop at some point in the taxi, and you can make the controller's life a little easier.
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This isn't making the controllers life difficult.

Mike H said:
Brilliant. Since it's at night, you're neither certain of how much runway you used landing & stopping, nor how much is left to take off
Click to expand...
What? How can you not know? I mean sure, you're not going to know the exact footage but unless you have an airport diagram that lists the take off distances from taxi ways/intersection you don't know anyways. Or if there is a tower they can give you the "more than X feet for takeoff"
But regardless one should always have a rough idea of how much you have left.
 
BajtheJino said:
Or another reason that works just fine-because I wanted to.
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:rotfl:

BajtheJino said:
What? How can you not know? I mean sure, you're not going to know the exact footage but unless you have an airport diagram that lists the take off distances from taxi ways/intersection you don't know anyways. Or if there is a tower they can give you the "more than X feet for takeoff"
But regardless one should always have a rough idea of how much you have left.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:
 
BajtheJino said:
Say I want to practice a short field landing. I come to a stop and then want to do a soft field take off. Or another reason that works just fine-because I wanted to.


Stop and go's are just another way for the student to get used to the airplane. Plus its nice to shake it up once and a while. Stop and go, touch and go's, full stop taxi backs...variety is nice.


This isn't making the controllers life difficult.


What? How can you not know? I mean sure, you're not going to know the exact footage but unless you have an airport diagram that lists the take off distances from taxi ways/intersection you don't know anyways. Or if there is a tower they can give you the "more than X feet for takeoff"
But regardless one should always have a rough idea of how much you have left.
Click to expand...

tjvpa28 said:
Yes we are.
Click to expand...

N519AT said:
When you have a 10,600 ft runway you don't really care about that in a 172 unless you landed in the amber lights at the end of the runway.
Click to expand...

Mike H said:
Brilliant. Since it's at night, you're neither certain of how much runway you used landing & stopping, nor how much is left to take off
Click to expand...


Has everyone forgotten about the distance remaining signs?:confused:
 
Houston said:
Assuming runway length is not an issue, stopping also allows a more thoughtful cleanup of a complex airplane and reduces the potential for inadvertent gear retraction.
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So does exiting the runway & taxiing back.

Going back the opening post, there's no mention made of a complex aircraft or 10000ft runways, so maybe we could try sticking to the original premise and the original problem.

That said, if the controller has an issue with excessive time stopped on the runway, the options might be to amend the clearance to "exit the runway and taxi back for takeoff", or next time around the pattern, simply not clear a stop & go and offer either a touch & go, or a full stop-taxi back landing
 
When I soloed, it was the Aero Club's policy to have the student do stop and go's, t & g's were not permitted as a student pilot. This was also on a 12,000 foot runway at Osan AFB in Korea in a 172...so no real danger there.
 
Mike H said:
So does exiting the runway & taxiing back.

Going back the opening post, there's no mention made of a complex aircraft or 10000ft runways, so maybe we could try sticking to the original premise and the original problem.

That said, if the controller has an issue with excessive time stopped on the runway, the options might be to amend the clearance to "exit the runway and taxi back for takeoff", or next time around the pattern, simply not clear a stop & go and offer either a touch & go, or a full stop-taxi back landing
Click to expand...

Taxi backs waste time, simple as that.

Cleared for the option is the best way to go.
 
I will sometimes use stop and goes during a check ride to allow for a simulated single engine landing, followed by a performance take-off, or simulating an engine failure prior to rotation.
 
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