Three Dead in Houston Cirrus Crash

Murdoughnut said:
Just listened to the audio. Having not spent any time in higher performance singles, is there something about the aircraft that makes chopping altitude on final particularly difficult?

Have to say from listening to it that the controllers seemed very patient with her considering the workload and her obvious difficulties operating the aircraft.
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Sounded as if ATC was more than generous with the attention they gave to her; if only I had a better perspective on her Class B experience.
 
Back when the BRS was coming out I thought it would only give the weekend warriors a false sense of security when it comes to staying proficient. Since then we've seen a lot of BRS 'saves' but I have to wonder if having that parachute available is not part of the problem when it comes to really learning how to maneuver your airplane and staying proficient at steep turns, stall recovery, etc. The picture of the airplane looked like the chute cover might have been popped, but that might have happened on impact.

Also, I doubt if she maneuvered away from the building or propane tank, she just got lucky the airplane went where it did, she obviously had no control over it.
 
Murdoughnut said:
Just listened to the audio. Having not spent any time in higher performance singles, is there something about the aircraft that makes chopping altitude on final particularly difficult?
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Not so much the higher performance (in terms of power) - all things being the same, they fly like anything else with the power pulled back. Besides, an SR-20 has essentially the same engine as a 172.

Modern, composite aircraft are much cleaner aerodynamically though - which I think gets some pilots into trouble. Decent planning is more involved - they will build up speed quickly, and if high, won't just descend by chopping off power.
 
Murdoughnut said:
Just listened to the audio. Having not spent any time in higher performance singles, is there something about the aircraft that makes chopping altitude on final particularly difficult.
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Speaking personally, I dont find the SR-20 to simultaneously "go down and slow down" well. You have to hit your speeds. It's definitely not like your run-of-the-mill Cessna or Piper, handling-wise. Depending on the prop installed, the SR-22 can be somewhat better in this respect.

With that wing, wake turbulence considerations and a (?) tailwind component, nailing your speeds is an absolute must. "Keep it in close" would likely make me uncomfortable given those other factors.

//edit: I'm not advocating a 5 mile pattern, only a proper, stabilized approach... Or going elsewhere.
 
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I dont know what going on with the SR20/22 crowd but my last 5 years as a controller 90% of the GA group that tryed to kill themselves on my Freq were flying SR20/22, it was like lemmings running for the cliff hell they made the Mooney pilots look like PhDs.
 
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FlyingSieve said:
Speaking personally, I dont find the SR-20 to simultaneously "go down and slow down" well. You have to hit your speeds. It's definitely not like your run-of-the-mill Cessna or Piper, handling-wise. Depending on the prop installed, the SR-22 can be somewhat better in this respect.

With that wing, wake turbulence considerations and a (?) tailwind component, nailing your speeds is an absolute must. "Keep it in close" would likely make me uncomfortable given those other factors.

//edit: I'm not advocating a 5 mile pattern, only a proper, stabilized approach... Or going elsewhere.
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oh come on people...the cirrus may be a little slippery but we're not talking about the space shuttle.
 
mshunter said:
Holy balls guys. Three people are dead. Their bodies aren't even cold yet.
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Not to be callous, buy what if the proper time period to wait before having the above discussion that could help someone avoid a similar fate?

If you can't do something smart, do something right
 
IslandFlyer said:
Was she given a LAHSO? If so I apologize in advance but as far as i know there's 6000' of concrete on 17 or 35.

I'm based out of HOU and depart 35 on occasion but we never land 17 or 35.

Am I missing something?
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What you missed is that she was told to keep her speed up and make short approaches on every attempt, and at least one of the go arounds e as due to a jet crawling up her behind. If you take her to 17 and use LAHSO, the sequence with the jets landing 4 becomes moot. I edited my original post because I don't want to mmqb those controllers.
 
What I've never understood, if you're in a slow little plane like a SR20 or C182 and not doing a specifically contracted flight, why even fly into these major airports when there are plenty of other little airports around? It's no different than riding a scooter on the freeway full of semi's.
 
killbilly said:
Nah, no need for that, and I apologize for the sanctimonious tone of my post.

I just thought the general consensus around here was to wait until we knew everything about the crash. The whole, "yeah, it could happen to me," thing. But I guess enough is known that that isn't a factor. Whatever. I'm learning.
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I apologize as well. I would like to know what the real cause was when the report comes out.
 
thevideographer said:
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In this case, I don't think all the stall/spin training in the world would have helped.
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I believe that procedure for the Cirri is to pop the chute.

I flew with an experienced Cirrus pilot while checking him out in a new 172. He did not do steep banks, he would always push the nose down in the turn, and he was always screaming down final.
 
NovemberEcho said:
What I've never understood, if you're in a slow little plane like a SR20 or C182 and not doing a specifically contracted flight, why even fly into these major airports when there are plenty of other little airports around? It's no different than riding a scooter on the freeway full of semi's.
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Depends entirely on the situation, but at a guess, it's about amenities/proximity to where you're trying to go. The article said they were visiting a sick father, I believe? How close is that hospital to HOU vs. other airports? Maybe he's terminal and they were rushing to get there? I don't know. I do know that if I HAD to go into HOU and I had some schedule flexibility, I would either land very, very, very early in the morning or later into the evening when things slow down some.
 
deadstick said:
I believe that procedure for the Cirri is to pop the chute.

I flew with an experienced Cirrus pilot while checking him out in a new 172. He did not do steep banks, he would always push the nose down in the turn, and he was always screaming down final.
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Interesting. Does it really handle that differently from traditional trainers?
 
mshunter said:
Get upset. Everyone here is so quick to hang someone when an accident happens. I pray it's never me. You should do the same.
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I hope you all do hang me, because statistically if I ball one up its probably because I screwed up and I'll be another one to say it, barring something like a flight control issue or physiological this gal had no business flying that airplane in that airspace.
 
NovemberEcho said:
What I've never understood, if you're in a slow little plane like a SR20 or C182 and not doing a specifically contracted flight, why even fly into these major airports when there are plenty of other little airports around? It's no different than riding a scooter on the freeway full of semi's.
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Sorry to hear about the loss of life.

Flew into HOU with my instructor in a C172 to gain some exposure in high-traffic environments. He handled it fine, but it was definitely a high-work load environment and not something I'd try solo without considerable experience. There are certainly many airports in the area suitable for GA aircraft that aren't too far from HOU/IAH.
 
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