The SWA of the Regionals

jhugz said:
If they are not there to help you keep a job what are they there for?
Click to expand...

They cant give the company money when they lose block hours and no longer are being paid enough to pass it on to the pilots the employee. If Airways decides they are reducing block hours by 50%, what do you expect the airline to do?

If you go off the side of the runway and you were following company policy the whole time, but the company doesnt back you up, then a union is there to help you keep your job. If your airline wants to to fly over 8 hours claiming that because its part 91 your allowed to go over 8 hours and you say no, and they want to fire you, then a union steps in to protect your job.

If an MEC decides that the airline should setup a fund for furloughed pilots, or an MEC calls up the airline to see about how to reduce furloughs, then you have a great MEC. However that is not their job.
 
v1valarob said:
If an MEC decides that the airline should setup a fund for furloughed pilots, or an MEC calls up the airline to see about how to reduce furloughs, then you have a great MEC. However that is not their job.
Click to expand...

Ok let me get this straight...a Union is suppose to be a group that's sole purpose is to represent the pilot group in all concerns and they get to pick and choose what issues they deal with? I would be more concerned about half a pilot group being furloughed then the union defending a 20 year veteran that made a shaky decision.
 
can we keep on track with the OP's post please and not let it veer into an another topic? if you'd like to continue the tangent topic, you can create a new thread :)
 
Kristie said:
can we keep on track with the OP's post please and not let it veer into an another topic? if you'd like to continue the tangent topic, you can create a new thread :)
Click to expand...

From "Which is the best for me" to "I have intimate relations with NoJet" in 3.2 seconds flat!

BTW, nice M&M's!!
 
Turbolag said:
What about Eagle? On Airlinepilotcentral their listed as a major....but are they a regional? I've heard their lounge is really nice for the pilots.
Click to expand...
I like to believe that Eagle has it's potential to be a fantastic place to work. It's not horrible now (yes, I do my fair share of whining, but....I'm a pilot :D ).

Things on the horizon are looking promising. Talk of more planes. AA recalls.....the flow throughs actually flowing through....Hiring.... and the like.

But, time will tell.

As for the pilots lounge.....I'd be safe in saying that Walmart employees have better lounges. :D But, then again, I haven't seen other airlines crew lounges, so...... take that with a grain of salt.
 
ready2fly said:
As for the pilots lounge.....I'd be safe in saying that Walmart employees have better lounges. :D But, then again, I haven't seen other airlines crew lounges, so...... take that with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...

The Eagle lounges I was intimately familiar with were not bad at all. There's much worse out there, believe me.
 
jtrain609 said:
Well that depends on what life throws you. When I got hired at Express, there were bases in LAX and ONT, with the LAX flying having TONS Of SLC overnights (where I live). I figured it'd be a super easy commute to either city and I'd end up with the easy life. Also when I got hired, those bases were ultra junior.

Flash forward to the end of training, I got stuck in EWR and ended up doing a cross country commute for 14 months. If I had been in the class before mine or the class after, I would have been sitting in LAX or ONT (yes, you read that correctly, a few classes AFTER mine were went to LAX/ONT/IAH when I was forced to go to EWR. I was mighty pissed about that one). Awesome.

It's just what life throws you sometimes.



You are not offered upgrade, you bid upgrade. When you are able to hold it, you go to class. There are career FO's out there that NEVER upgrade, they simply don't want to take the hit in QOL and make enough money as is.

As an example, my bid looked something like this:

LAX - CA (long jet/short jet)
ONT - CA (long jet/short jet)
IAH - CA (long jet/short jet)
SAT - CA (long jet/short jet)
EWR - CA (long jet/short jet)
CLE - CA (long jet/short jet)

LAX - FO
ONT - FO
IAH - FO
SAT - FO
EWR - FO
CLE - FO

That would mean that my first bid was LAX Captain in the long jet (there were separate pay scales for the EMB-135 and the EMB-145 at the time). My second bid was LAX Captain in the short jet, and so on. Only until I got to my 13th preference in bidding did I get to ANY FO slots.

Now why did I bid like this as a new hire? Because I didn't want to miss an opportunity to hold captain down the road because I didn't bid captains slots first. Because I of course couldn't hold captain anywhere because I was just hired, the computer went down the list until it found something I could hold, which happened to be EWR FO, which you may notice is my 17th choice out of 18 possible options. Such is life for a junior FO, you kind of take what you can get.

But to wrap all that up, you're never offered anything by the company. You make requests of the company, and they will grant them seniority order.
Click to expand...

I think I am missing a part of the equation. You bid captain for your first 12 options. After that you bid FO. Is this every bid cycle? I am guessing that is monthly. Why were guys less senior than you able to get a base that you bid?

I have no idea how airline scheduling works. Maybe I am missing something but it sounds to me like every bid cycle you could at a different base. Is hat correct? What constitutes the ability to hold a line? If they need a CA and you are the most senior FO and bid that slot then it goes to you and you go to training?

:confused:
 
Matt13C said:
I think I am missing a part of the equation. You bid captain for your first 12 options. After that you bid FO. Is this every bid cycle? I am guessing that is monthly. Why were guys less senior than you able to get a base that you bid?
Click to expand...

Nope, twice a year is the minimum the company is contractually required to run a system bid, which allows people to upgrade to transfer bases. Only during those times can you bid for a new base or upgrade, which is the reason you put in captain bids first; you wouldn't want to miss out on upgrade and push it back for 6-12 months because you forgot to bid captain.

The reason for the inverse seniority assignment is a point of contention with me and a handful of other guys from my base. It'd take an understanding of the contract and the wording for how it happened, it's a bit of a discussion. Suffice it to say my class wasn't too pleased with how things shook out, and we believe that it was an illegal assignment as per the contract.

I have no idea how airline scheduling works. Maybe I am missing something but it sounds to me like every bid cycle you could at a different base. Is hat correct? What constitutes the ability to hold a line? If they need a CA and you are the most senior FO and bid that slot then it goes to you and you go to training?

:confused:
Click to expand...

That's correct, you could be at a different base for a number of reasons.

You are assigned a base by what your seniority can hold. So when the computer goes through the bids, it takes the number one guy and gives him what he wants, then the number two, then the number three and so on. Bases and positions within bases are filled from top to bottom in the seniority list. Once a position is filled up, it's obviously closed. So if the company fills all the captains slots for the company, then the next set of pilots that have bid captain will be assigned an FO slot. Does that make sense?

Further, with holding a line it's done in the same manner. Each base will have a certain number of lines that you can bid. They are assigned in seniority order, and once there are no lines left, the guys left in the base that were unable to hold a line (I.E. the people above them took all the lines), you start bidding on reserve lines.

So I'd put in a bid every month for a hard line, any hard line, and of course I'd be put into the phase two bid (meaning, I was bidding for a reserve line), and then I'd get a reserve line (certain days off) assigned to me, based on what my seniority could hold.

So it might not even be you being the most senior FO, it might just be that the FO's above you have not bid for a captains slot.

Now let's say everybody bid the way I did, then that would never be the case and everybody would upgrade as soon as they possibly could. Some guys want to do that, some guys don't. I wanted to upgrade as soon as possible (it obviously didn't matter much), Captain_Bob put off upgrade for a year. Heck, Doug can almost certainly hold captain SOMEWHERE in the Delta system right now, but doesn't really care to.

Clear as mud? Basically the company offers you nothing, this is not like the typical job. You hand out EVERYTHING from top to bottom on the seniority list, and you hold whatever you can hold.
 
jtrain609 said:
Nope, twice a year is the minimum the company is contractually required to run a system bid, which allows people to upgrade to transfer bases. Only during those times can you bid for a new base or upgrade, which is the reason you put in captain bids first; you wouldn't want to miss out on upgrade and push it back for 6-12 months because you forgot to bid captain.

The reason for the inverse seniority assignment is a point of contention with me and a handful of other guys from my base. It'd take an understanding of the contract and the wording for how it happened, it's a bit of a discussion. Suffice it to say my class wasn't too pleased with how things shook out, and we believe that it was an illegal assignment as per the contract.



That's correct, you could be at a different base for a number of reasons.

You are assigned a base by what your seniority can hold. So when the computer goes through the bids, it takes the number one guy and gives him what he wants, then the number two, then the number three and so on. Bases and positions within bases are filled from top to bottom in the seniority list. Once a position is filled up, it's obviously closed. So if the company fills all the captains slots for the company, then the next set of pilots that have bid captain will be assigned an FO slot. Does that make sense?

Further, with holding a line it's done in the same manner. Each base will have a certain number of lines that you can bid. They are assigned in seniority order, and once there are no lines left, the guys left in the base that were unable to hold a line (I.E. the people above them took all the lines), you start bidding on reserve lines.

So I'd put in a bid every month for a hard line, any hard line, and of course I'd be put into the phase two bid (meaning, I was bidding for a reserve line), and then I'd get a reserve line (certain days off) assigned to me, based on what my seniority could hold.

So it might not even be you being the most senior FO, it might just be that the FO's above you have not bid for a captains slot.

Now let's say everybody bid the way I did, then that would never be the case and everybody would upgrade as soon as they possibly could. Some guys want to do that, some guys don't. I wanted to upgrade as soon as possible (it obviously didn't matter much), Captain_Bob put off upgrade for a year. Heck, Doug can almost certainly hold captain SOMEWHERE in the Delta system right now, but doesn't really care to.

Clear as mud? Basically the company offers you nothing, this is not like the typical job. You hand out EVERYTHING from top to bottom on the seniority list, and you hold whatever you can hold.
Click to expand...
Thanks John!
 
jtrain609 said:
Nope, twice a year is the minimum the company is contractually required to run a system bid, which allows people to upgrade to transfer bases. Only during those times can you bid for a new base or upgrade, which is the reason you put in captain bids first; you wouldn't want to miss out on upgrade and push it back for 6-12 months because you forgot to bid captain.

The reason for the inverse seniority assignment is a point of contention with me and a handful of other guys from my base. It'd take an understanding of the contract and the wording for how it happened, it's a bit of a discussion. Suffice it to say my class wasn't too pleased with how things shook out, and we believe that it was an illegal assignment as per the contract.



That's correct, you could be at a different base for a number of reasons.

You are assigned a base by what your seniority can hold. So when the computer goes through the bids, it takes the number one guy and gives him what he wants, then the number two, then the number three and so on. Bases and positions within bases are filled from top to bottom in the seniority list. Once a position is filled up, it's obviously closed. So if the company fills all the captains slots for the company, then the next set of pilots that have bid captain will be assigned an FO slot. Does that make sense?

Further, with holding a line it's done in the same manner. Each base will have a certain number of lines that you can bid. They are assigned in seniority order, and once there are no lines left, the guys left in the base that were unable to hold a line (I.E. the people above them took all the lines), you start bidding on reserve lines.

So I'd put in a bid every month for a hard line, any hard line, and of course I'd be put into the phase two bid (meaning, I was bidding for a reserve line), and then I'd get a reserve line (certain days off) assigned to me, based on what my seniority could hold.

So it might not even be you being the most senior FO, it might just be that the FO's above you have not bid for a captains slot.

Now let's say everybody bid the way I did, then that would never be the case and everybody would upgrade as soon as they possibly could. Some guys want to do that, some guys don't. I wanted to upgrade as soon as possible (it obviously didn't matter much), Captain_Bob put off upgrade for a year. Heck, Doug can almost certainly hold captain SOMEWHERE in the Delta system right now, but doesn't really care to.

Clear as mud? Basically the company offers you nothing, this is not like the typical job. You hand out EVERYTHING from top to bottom on the seniority list, and you hold whatever you can hold.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I see where I was confused now.

So minimum twice a year everyone in the company bids for what and where they want to be in the order most desirable to them. You are assigned based on seniority and that is your position until the next company wide bid.

At your base you bid on lines monthly, you being an FO could only bid on FO lines. First the hard lines and then the reserve. If for some reason a guy who normally held a hard line wanted to sit reserve he could bid it, get it and then a less senior guy could hold his hard line, until the more senior pilot decided to bid for a hard line again.

Makes sense now. Kind of complicated but makes sense.

I am guessing in times of growth they have more company wide bids so they can flow people into CA positions.Then in times like these they have the minimum and less senior CA's are no longer able to hold a line and go back to being an FO?

Sorry for all the questions. If I ever make it to a JC event I owe you a beer.
 
Exactly right with how often they put out system bids (and remember, this was just for Express, other companies might do it differently). When they were running 80 guys a month through the training pipeline they were running system bids maybe once a month, but the contract only requires them to do it twice a year.

And you've kind of got it with the captains. We furloughed 350 pilots, who were obviously all FO's. With that, they downgraded something like 150 captains, so they're now first officers again. Again, you hold what you can hold ya know? They don't need as many captains, so they put some captains back to the right seat.

There are reserve captains too, so there are captains that hold lines, and captains that can't hold a line, just like FO's.
 
All I've gotta say folks...







is...

These nachos are good! hoo hoo!
 
Matt13C said:
I think I am missing a part of the equation. You bid captain for your first 12 options. After that you bid FO. Is this every bid cycle? I am guessing that is monthly. Why were guys less senior than you able to get a base that you bid?
Click to expand...

It's a "standing bid." You don't really bid for seats or bases unless there's an opening, vacancy or whatever your airline calls it that allows people to move around. In Jtrain's case, I don't think there ever was one after he finished initial training. For a while, PCL had a vacancy a month if not more often. You put a standing bid in so you don't have to re-bid every time there's a vacancy. When one comes out, the bid system looks at your preferences from top to bottom. If you seniority can hold your #1 choice, it awards that. If not, it goes to #2 and so on. So, if for some insane reason no one bid a CA slot for your #1 choice, you could be awarded a CA position VERY quickly. There were several vacancies here that had slots go unfilled b/c there weren't enough people bidding for it. Hence the reason people from other regionals came here. We never hired street CAs, but we had some FOs that were able to hold CA before they were even out of training. So, if you met the requirements for upgrade, bid it. The golden rule here is bid what you want, not what you think you can hold. You never know what'll happen.
I have no idea how airline scheduling works. Maybe I am missing something but it sounds to me like every bid cycle you could at a different base. Is hat correct? What constitutes the ability to hold a line? If they need a CA and you are the most senior FO and bid that slot then it goes to you and you go to training?

:confused:
Click to expand...

Two different bids. The bidding for seats and domiciles is different than your monthly bid.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top