The REAL value to jumping to a regional?

Phil Schuyler said:
Unlike Part 91 and 135 flying, where the flight crew does almost everything, Part 121 flying is very much a team effort. Pilots, Flight Attendants, Mechanics, Dispatchers, Ground Agents, etc, all have a role to play in the operation of a safe and productive flight. I submit to you airline HR staff are looking for evidence that a candidate can fit into that team. Being a current for former pilot for a 121 carrier is evidence of that.

It's not a question of your aeronautical skills. It's a question of your ability to fit into the team dynamic. While I've no doubt that you can, it sounds like your resume does not show evidence to support that. Remember, it's the Flight Ops Department who is driving this, not HR. Flight Ops tells HR "this is the kind of candidate we're looking for, send us people like this." HR simply screens the applications and submits to Flight Ops candidates who are most likely to meet their needs.

There is a second component to this. Another post in this thread made mention of part 121 requiring "almost no customer service" compared to Part 135. I wholeheartedly disagree with that point of view, but it does raise a good point. You appear to have little or no "passenger service" experience. As a cargo aircraft pilot you may have customer service experience (shippers, receivers, etc), but you have no "passenger service" experience. See the difference? I think it's fair to say passenger airlines want pilots who will be alert and responsive to passenger concerns.

There you go; the problem defined. Now go solve it.
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Thanks for that. I know I'm probably coming off as one of "those guys". Trust me, I'm not. :)

What we should do is @Autothrust Blue and I compare a typical flight in the Brasilia. That plane is why I think there's actually a lot in common if not completely identical between 135 "airline" flying(which I feel like Ameriflight is) and 121.

I do understand jet time being desirable as @Polar742 pointed out. But, guys from Piedmont flying Dash 8s, and Skywest guys in Brasilias are going to the legacies. Of which, I'm betting are identical operations to how Ameriflight operates the Brasilia.

Again, just thinking out loud for when this next year of freight dogging comes to an end.
 
z987k said:
I honestly think you're selling yourself short. There's nothing you won't learn on IOE in a couple of hours that you NEED. The rest will be picked up in time. It's not like they're hiring street captains.
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Well, of course that's true.

If It were up to me, I'd walk right in the front door at my 121 major of choice and they'd find me qualified and ready to go as is, where is. Plenty of guys with my same level of qualification have gone directly from mil duty to a major and transitioned just fine - it has been that way for literally half a century. There's nothing that I can't learn in training and IOE at a major that I can only get at a regional.

Unfortunately, most places have currency and recency quals as part of their hiring process that I don't meet. I've chosen to play the game, and those are part of the rules of the game. That means, for the most part, that the easiest avenue to get current, and the one that adds 121 time to my resume (which the majors seem to find attractive) is to go to a regional.

I've just decided that, instead of acting like an entitled twat and believing that I'm above spending time at the regionals, since I'm going to have to be there anyway I'm going to acknowledge that there are, in fact, things about 121 flying that I can learn there and try to actually get something out of it.

You know, glass half full and all that. If my circumstances change in the next year and I can go directly to a "big" operator instead, you can bet that's exactly what I'll do.
 
UAL747400 said:
Thanks for that. I know I'm probably coming off as one of "those guys". Trust me, I'm not. :)

What we should do is @Autothrust Blue and I compare a typical flight in the Brasilia. That plane is why I think there's actually a lot in common if not completely identical between 135 "airline" flying(which I feel like Ameriflight is) and 121.

I do understand jet time being desirable as @Polar742 pointed out. But, guys from Piedmont flying Dash 8s, and Skywest guys in Brasilias are going to the legacies. Of which, I'm betting are identical operations to how Ameriflight operates the Brasilia.

Again, just thinking out loud for when this next year of freight dogging comes to an end.
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"Cool, dude. Flaps 15, taxi check." ;)

We won't have many Brasilia guys left soon. The flight ops are similar, but the people dynamics are a little more complex, to answer your question in short.
 
Majors like previous 121 experience because the operations essentally mirror each other. Experience dealing with ramp control, terminal operations and other things unique to 121 operations are considered a plus. Previous 121 flying is a check in the box and adds points to your score. Not having it will not necessarily keep you from getting the job, but you will have to make up the points in other areas to stay competitive. They want to see applicants who have had to work with gate agents, flight attendants, dispatchers and deal with passenger issues while keeping the operation on time. They like somebody who can navigate this process and be ready to push 10 minutes before published departure time. They assume everybody that has the required time will have adequate flying skills so that isn't really evaluated until the sim phase. Right now there are lots of regional pilots who are looking to move so they will probably be at the top of the list, at least for the start of the hiring cycle. Military pilots who are operationally current are also in a good position to be called.
 
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Oh no, I think he might have logged in with the wrong username. #hatewhenthathappens
 
UAL747400 said:
Thanks for that. I know I'm probably coming off as one of "those guys". Trust me, I'm not. :)

What we should do is @Autothrust Blue and I compare a typical flight in the Brasilia. That plane is why I think there's actually a lot in common if not completely identical between 135 "airline" flying(which I feel like Ameriflight is) and 121.

I do understand jet time being desirable as @Polar742 pointed out. But, guys from Piedmont flying Dash 8s, and Skywest guys in Brasilias are going to the legacies. Of which, I'm betting are identical operations to how Ameriflight operates the Brasilia.

Again, just thinking out loud for when this next year of freight dogging comes to an end.
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Although you may think that Amflight and 121 are similar, I am willing to bet most majors recruiters don't realize that or think the same. The Piedmont and Skywest example have a common theme that the majors love to see. They are both 121... Gotta play the game unfortunately. If you attended a job fair I bet the legacies and most majors would tell you to get 121 time.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
Although you may think that Amflight and 121 are similar, I am willing to bet most majors recruiters don't realize that or think the same. The Piedmont and Skywest example have a common theme that the majors love to see. They are both 121... Gotta play the game unfortunately. If you attended a job fair I bet the legacies and most majors would tell you to get 121 time.
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They would. I know a guy who had crap-tons of metroliner PIC time, transitioned to the Brasilia, got plenty of two-pilot time as captain and the answer at a particular airline was to pretty much apply for a regional and 're-upgrade'.

Disheartening when I heard this, but well, not my decision :(
 
Hacker15e said:
I've chosen to play the game, and those are part of the rules of the game. That means, for the most part, that the easiest avenue to get current, and the one that adds 121 time to my resume (which the majors seem to find attractive) is to go to a regional.

I've just decided that, instead of acting like an entitled twat and believing that I'm above spending time at the regionals, since I'm going to have to be there anyway I'm going to acknowledge that there are, in fact, things about 121 flying that I can learn there and try to actually get something out of it.

You know, glass half full and all that. If my circumstances change in the next year and I can go directly to a "big" operator instead, you can bet that's exactly what I'll do.
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I hope that is not holding you back from having an application on file with every major.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
Although you may think that Amflight and 121 are similar, I am willing to bet most majors recruiters don't realize that or think the same. The Piedmont and Skywest example have a common theme that the majors love to see. They are both 121... Gotta play the game unfortunately. If you attended a job fair I bet the legacies and most majors would tell you to get 121 time.
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Derg said:
They would. I know a guy who had crap-tons of metroliner PIC time, transitioned to the Brasilia, got plenty of two-pilot time as captain and the answer at a particular airline was to pretty much apply for a regional and 're-upgrade'.

Disheartening when I heard this, but well, not my decision :(
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So why don't they tell that to the military guys? I mean, I realize 121 time is PhD-level rocket science and all, and is nothing that is able to be learned without having gone to a regional first, but why single out the AMF guys with the appropriate TPIC anyway? Mil guys don't have any 121 time, and in the case of fighter guys, don't even have what could be considered related experience, unlike transport/tanker guys; and they seem to do just fine with the transition, generally speaking. Interesting double standard....
 
MikeD said:
So why don't they tell that to the military guys? I mean, I realize 121 time is PhD-level rocket science and all, and is nothing that is able to be learned without having gone to a regional first, but why single out the AMF guys with the appropriate TPIC anyway? Mil guys don't have any 121 time, and in the case of fighter guys, don't even have what could be considered related experience, unlike transport/tanker guys; and they seem to do just fine with the transition, generally speaking. Interesting double standard....
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It totally is, but there is a history of military guys (both totally qualified and not at all qualified) getting pulled on board. Just the way it is.
 
BobDDuck said:
It totally is, but there is a history of military guys (both totally qualified and not at all qualified) getting pulled on board. Just the way it is.
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Because I'm sure the same demographic of AMF guys....from average to excellent.....could be found too, and their experience while not the same with regards to hauling pax, is closer to 121 pax ops than many mil guys.

Sounds like the kind of idiot reasoning that I'd expect to see from the USAF, not an airline.
 
MikeD said:
Because I'm sure the same demographic of AMF guys....from average to excellent.....could be found too, and their experience while not the same with regards to hauling pax, is closer to 121 pax ops than many mil guys.

Sounds like the kind of idiot reasoning that I'd expect to see from the USAF, not an airline.
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Well sure, but going back to the beginning of airline hiring in the 1920s, how big a pool of Military guys has there been and how big a pool of AMF guys has there been? It's a form of nepotism and bigger families always do better in that sort of environment.
 
BobDDuck said:
Well sure, but going back to the beginning of airline hiring in the 1920s, how big a pool of Military guys has there been and how big a pool of AMF guys has there been? It's a form of nepotism and bigger families always do better in that sort of environment.
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Unfortunately, that becomes the "we do it because we've always done it this way", argument they use; regardless of if its truly best practice or not. Which is too bad, because there are likely some very good AMF people out there (or similar company/operation/experience) who would excel, and probably a good number of mil guys who have gotten on who haven't excelled.
 
MikeD said:
So why don't they tell that to the military guys? I mean, I realize 121 time is PhD-level rocket science and all, and is nothing that is able to be learned without having gone to a regional first, but why single out the AMF guys with the appropriate TPIC anyway? Mil guys don't have any 121 time, and in the case of fighter guys, don't even have what could be considered related experience, unlike transport/tanker guys; and they seem to do just fine with the transition, generally speaking. Interesting double standard....
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Military pilots are the traditional "preferred" candidate at a lot of the majors.

Yes, it's a double standard.
 
Reading through this thread, the take-away seems to be this: If you want to be a pilot for a major airline, you will have to spend some time as a pilot for a regional airline. If you are a current military pilot, you may be able to bypass this. Sound right?

Problem solved! On to the next.

Ok, ready, set, GO!
 
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