The Next Threat to the Industry

RonSwanson

Well-Known Member
The RAA and other airlines have been lobbying congress to water down or "amend" the ATP rule for a decent amount of time now. This is a problem that is sneaking up on us and should be taken seriously. I fear ALPA and the majority of us will be taken off guard when this horse rears its ugly head.

The Airline Safety Act of 2010, or HR 5900, is law and will not be changed. The requirement of an ATP or R-ATP will not ever go away. However this law provides for the FAA to "give credit toward flight hours" required for an R-ATP certificate. This is what the RAA and airlines want and can be done in many ways; more sims, more ground school, specific training/121 observation, etc. All the lobbyists need to do is get creative and present data as to how safety is not being appreciably increased, how many jobs will be lost when airlines reduce or cut service, how reduced service will economically hurt these small towns when America is in its fastest economic rebound since 1999, etc. (right Obama?). Even by showing something like how there is no appreciable difference between checkride failures/washouts of students with the reduced ATP mins vs. those 1500 is the basis of a sound argument for expanding upon this new strategy of training, and giving hour credit for more "focused" training. The RAA is teaming up with lobbyists and gathering as much of this type of data as they can. Rest assured they will organize and present it intelligently and I submit you will see a change or proposed change in the requirements for an R-ATP within the next 5 years, once the squeeze is really being put on the regionals.

ALPA and the PAC needs to nip this in the bud and stay one step ahead of the RAA. This is our NAI. If you want to see regional airlines thrive, disregard everything above. If you want to see them fail or shrink dramatically, this is something that needs to be dealt with.

http://actnow.takeflighttomorrow.org
 
Next threat is Dougie ordering a crap ton of 195s and parking the 319s once this POS contract is voted in. Mark my words!

Also 321 neos going across the pond at group II pay.
 
Also 321 neos going across the pond at group II pay.

I hope they're NEO's at least because you're going to piss out a lot of gas in the low 30's until you're light enough to climb to optimum oceanic altitudes.
 
Next threat is Dougie ordering a crap ton of 195s and parking the 319s once this POS contract is voted in. Mark my words!

Also 321 neos going across the pond at group II pay.

He doesn't need a yes vote to do that. APA gave him that 2 years ago with their "Anyone but Horton" strategy.
 
195 mega fleet ain't going to happen, at least not as a 319 replacement. Typical of the PHL fear and anger factory.
 
The 321NeoLR won't even be delivered until 2019. We're not even certain AA will chose to operate it (although I assume they will).
 
195 mega fleet ain't going to happen, at least not as a 319 replacement. Typical of the PHL fear and anger factory.
Its to my understanding that the TA makes the percentage spread of group I to group II larger, that's what I was going off of. I'm thinking long term not just the next 3 to 4 years.
 
Its to my understanding that the TA makes the percentage spread of group I to group II larger, that's what I was going off of. I'm thinking long term not just the next 3 to 4 years.

If anything the 190 is going bye bye. There is a reason they still only have 1 sim and won't buy outside sim time and the backlog on that plane is 6+ months.
 
Next threat is Dougie ordering a crap ton of 195s and parking the 319s once this POS contract is voted in. Mark my words!

Also 321 neos going across the pond at group II pay.

Interesting theory. Where did you hear it from? If that was the company's plan, how come a month ago they announced part of their $2b capex was to retrofit all of the A319 interiors?

But you don't have to take my word for it, you can read it here:
http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/pressreleas...an-2-billion-in-planned-customer-improvements

A319 – One of the workhorses of the legacy US Airways fleet is scheduled for all new seats. Planned improvements include new seats throughout First Class and Main Cabin, and adding 24 Main Cabin Extra seats and power outlets throughout the cabin to charge personal electronic devices. All 93 A319s will be retrofitted and in service by the end of 2016.

As to ordering 321's and going to Europe, if that is really a cause of concern in 2019 and beyond, voting yes would place Group II pay HIGHER than Group III with a no vote. People are worried Group III will go away, yet are voting no based on that fear? Where did the common sense go?!?
 
All of these "Groups" are confusing. But then, of course, I don't work for American! ;)
 
Interesting theory. Where did you hear it from? If that was the company's plan, how come a month ago they announced part of their $2b capex was to retrofit all of the A319 interiors?

But you don't have to take my word for it, you can read it here:
http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/pressreleas...an-2-billion-in-planned-customer-improvements



As to ordering 321's and going to Europe, if that is really a cause of concern in 2019 and beyond, voting yes would place Group II pay HIGHER than Group III with a no vote. People are worried Group III will go away, yet are voting no based on that fear? Where did the common sense go?!?
Newly painted planes go to the desert all the time. I can't in good conscience help further the gap between group I and group II aircraft.

Common sense to me is a solid NO vote, to you it might be something different (and I respect that). I'd rather open section 6 earlier than give concessions for a subpar monetary value.

I'm not a vocal no vote like many on C and R, but I do believe it's the right thing to do. I don't trust this management team, and that's what helped formulate my no vote.
 
If anything the 190 is going bye bye. There is a reason they still only have 1 sim and won't buy outside sim time and the backlog on that plane is 6+ months.
The fleet manager was talking about how they tried to get an extra jet blue sim during my recurrent. It's all rumours, who knows. But why wouldn't they try to get more with how much less they pay than delta group I (regardless of a yes or no vote)? How many does a 195 hold? A 319?
 
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Newly painted planes go to the desert all the time. I can't in good conscience help further the gap between group I and group II aircraft.

Common sense to me is a solid NO vote, to you it might be something different (and I respect that). I'd rather open section 6 earlier than give concessions for a subpar monetary value.

I'm not a vocal no vote like many on C and R, but I do believe it's the right thing to do. I don't trust this management team, and that's what helped formulate my no vote.
Did you read the press release? They aren't just painting them, they are refurbishing them. Including the interiors.

A 195 holds 108 IIRC, a 319 holds 124. Keep in mind 319's can be bought now for almost half off list, where as the 195 is almost double the 319 cost.
 
Can someone explain to me like I'm 5 how this is a threat to the industry? Didn't most air crews who are operating safely at this point in time get their ATP before the 1500 hour rule went into effect? The idea of trading focused quality training hours for a blind quantity of hours makes sense to me. As someone who has an order of magnitude less than the required 1500 hours, I am clearly biased, but I'd like to understand the position better.
 
Did you read the press release? They aren't just painting them, they are refurbishing them. Including the interiors.

A 195 holds 108 IIRC, a 319 holds 124. Keep in mind 319's can be bought now for almost half off list, where as the 195 is almost double the 319 cost.
They are upping the seats on the 319 to 130
 
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