The lateral move

[Kingairer]

"Career"...If hes got a skeleton in his closet that he eludes to plus only a 2 year degree, he may be in for a bit longer term of service at the regionals. If you had a 4 year degree and a clean record I would no doubt say stay put where you are and keep working to get out.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Career regional?

Those words make me want to hurt myself.

 

[derg]

Again, I'm offering some unsolicited advice, but, well, here it goes.

I do have applications in at many carriers of all shapes and sizes, but I've never been good at networking.

If you're actively trying to network, you're absolutely doing it wrong. Try to stay "top of mind" with people who are success-minded, talk about your goals CONSTANTLY, and magic will happen.

The other sticking point I feel is that I only have a two year degree…

Finish it. "I only have a two year degree" and "I have applications out (at the majors)" means that you're pre-planning not to be competitive in a heavily competitive field.

plus some other "baggage".

Clear it up. If you can't clear it up, be sure to FULLY COMMUNICATE this to people trying to help you apply at their carriers. If I'm sitting in an employment office and there's a "skeleton" that wasn't divulged to me, you may have just destroyed my professional credibility and my ability to help other great candidates.

 

[cmhumphr]

@Max Power I'm pretty sure I gave you a ride to CLE when you were getting ready to start your IOE or observation flight!

You thinking about leaving too huh. Man I swear our whole roster is going to be gone and I'll be stuck flying both seats again.

 

[guywhoflies]

I do have applications in at many carriers of all shapes and sizes, but I've never been good at networking. The other sticking point I feel is that I only have a two year degree plus some other "baggage". Nothing that is truly awful IF I get a chance to explain it, but having to tick some extra boxes on those applications probably pushes me into the denied pile. PM if you want details, I've aired some dirty laundry elsewhere on here.

Worst case for C5? Company closes in June, putting me out on the street and further behind those already at RAH seniority wise, extending upgrade time further. I don't see this happening. Right now...

Best case for C5: Hang around and upgrade, sit reserve while commuting to third base, IAD or EWR. Hope that next contract brings up more QOL standard and pay.

Worst case RAH: Get hired for Q400 or E170 and stuck at a base I can't get out of to (and that's tough to commute to) to get PIT. Or get PIT, only to have them close it sooner than later and then being stuck at said base. Upgrade stops and stuck in right seat for a longer period of time. Or having to walk a picket line after getting hired...

Best case RAH: Getting E170 and staying in PIT until I choose to leave RAH. More probable: Getting Q400 and staying in PIT until I choose to leave. I'm OK with a turboprop, but if getting pure jet time helps, then that's preferable.

Getting a bachelors degree is something I've wanted to do. But we are debt free save for the house and one car and I don't want to go back into debt for school. The online degree programs offered make it much easier now, but not cheaper.

Thanks to all so far.

I would look into Western Governors University. It is all online, the terms start every month and run for six months. The best part is that each term costs about $3000 no matter how many credits (WGU calls them "competency units") you complete. They make you sign up for 12 competency units (CUs) per term but you can do more (many more!) than that. You can realistically finish 30 CUs each term so finishing a bachelors could cost you around $6000.

They aren't for everyone, they don't hold your hand. It is basically the ATP flight school of universities.

Take a look at their website www.wgu.edu and feel free to PM me with any questions.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[stormchaser]

C54L.

 

[Old Dominion Flyer]

Trying to consider the ramifications of all, any help is appreciated.

The lateral move worked for me...so far. However, my situation differed from what you described. I had been at Colgan for 9 months flying the Saab, and based at home when Pinnacle announced plans to furlough 450 pilots over the next 18 months. I was 150 from the bottom of the seniority list. I moved to XJT and began flying the CRJ while based at home. Had I remained at Pinnacle, I'd be flying the same jet, for less pay, and commuting. My son is 7 months old, and I certainly agree with you about maximizing time at home. The pay raise makes it an easy call. But what if the pay was the same? Time at home with my son is very valuable to me, but at what cost to my career? Before I became a parent, it'd be an easy call to stay put unless the move yielded certain and significant job improvement. As a parent, it feels like the lateral move could be worth the increased time at home. Sounds like another case of the family vs. career discussion. You've got more time at this parenting gig than I do, perhaps it is I that should be asking you for advice. Good Luck!

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Lateral moves are a gamble that doesn't often work unless there is SIGNIFICANT QOL increases to be gained like being almost certainly based at home.

CLE shrinking may be bad for Commutair...or it may lead to a new base with new flying...you just don't know.

My airline has a less than stellar outlook for the future. I plan on riding it into the ground if it goes that way.

I only took a lateral move so that I could drive to work. I additionally believed I was going to get furloughed (not the case, as it turned out)—I was displaced to a base across the country, the opportunity was right there, I was still on first year pay (woo), and I bolted. It's working out great, but it's still a large gamble.

 

[ClarkGriswold]

I only took a lateral move so that I could drive to work. I additionally believed I was going to get furloughed (not the case, as it turned out)—I was displaced to a base across the country, the opportunity was right there, I was still on first year pay (woo), and I bolted. It's working out great, but it's still a large gamble.

This, I did the same thing and thought I was going to be furloughed too. If you're going to do it, do it during the first year.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

I only took a lateral move so that I could drive to work. I additionally believed I was going to get furloughed (not the case, as it turned out)—I was displaced to a base across the country, the opportunity was right there, I was still on first year pay (woo), and I bolted. It's working out great, but it's still a large gamble.

Yeah, that made a ton of sense.

But chasing an upgrade or just trying to fly a jet isn't a good reason in my opionion.

That said, the OP says he is still trying to finish a degree. More money would help with that situation. That said captain pay at Commutair is (non first year) FO pay at other regionals. So really it's a wash.

 

[scooter2525]

Get busy.

Well..... okay.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

This, I did the same thing and thought I was going to be furloughed too. If you're going to do it, do it during the first year.

I work for a company that, on the average day, is about 150% better from an operational point of view too. I've also been a lineholder for a year. I'm lucky. Results not guaranteed.

 

[cmhumphr]

Yeah, that made a ton of sense.

But chasing an upgrade or just trying to fly a jet isn't a good reason in my opionion.

That said, the OP says he is still trying to finish a degree. More money would help with that situation. That said captain pay at Commutair is (non first year) FO pay at other regionals. So really it's a wash.

Leaving to fly a jet is one of the main reasons people leave here. The past couple of trips I have done, we always have "the lateral move" talk and it usually ends up like,"I don't know bro, GoJet is looking okay. What do you think of PSA?" Hell we even had a few captains leave for other regionals. C5 is what it is, this is my first and only airline so I don't have a lot of experience with other places. However I have flown with people from PinnaColAba, Piedmont, ExpressJet, and Chautauqua. Hearing their experiences lead me to believe that a regional is simply....a regional. Regardless if it's a 50 seat RJ or a turboprop. However all I would say is if you are already here, sticking around is worth it. Pick up flying and get that 1000 TPIC as quickly as you can and once you have it, you have it forever. You'll never have to "backtrack".

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Leaving to fly a jet is one of the main reasons people leave here. The past couple of trips of I have done, we always have "the lateral move" talk and it usually ends up like,"I don't know bro, GoJet is looking okay. What do you think of PSA?" Hell we even had a few captains leave for other regionals. C5 is what it is, this is my first and only airline so I don't have a lot of experience with other places. However I have flown with people from PinnaColAba, Piedmont, ExpressJet, and Chautauqua. Hearing their experiences lead me to believe that a regional is simply....a regional. Regardless if it's a 50 seat RJ or a turboprop. However all I would say is if you are already here, sticking around is worth it. Pick up flying and get that 1000 TPIC as quickly as you can and once you have it, you have it forever. You'll never have to "backtrack".

I left flying an RJ to fly a turboprop airplane. The word "idiot" was tossed around once or twice with my name (and sometimes profanity) attached, but I don't really have a strong opinion neither way. The DFW CP looked at me and said "Well, congrats kid - if I were you I'd do the same thing."

 

[Max Power]

@Max Power I'm pretty sure I gave you a ride to CLE when you were getting ready to start your IOE or observation flight!

You thinking about leaving too huh. Man I swear our whole roster is going to be gone and I'll be stuck flying both seats again.

Yeah, that's me. And I'm truly only contemplating it because they called with an interview offer. I do like most aspects of C5 and I don't see it going away or reducing force. But i have to keep my options open, I'm not in so far I can't leave, but I am low enough that if cuts come, I'm not safe either.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Yeah, that's me. And I'm truly only contemplating it because they called with an interview offer. I do like most aspects of C5 and I don't see it going away or reducing force. But i have to keep my options open, I'm not in so far I can't leave, but I am low enough that if cuts come, I'm not safe either.

Worry about nothing until you have a job offer.

(not saying you won't get it, but order of events is not insignificant)

 

[cmhumphr]

Yeah, that's me. And I'm truly only contemplating it because they called with an interview offer. I do like most aspects of C5 and I don't see it going away or reducing force. But i have to keep my options open, I'm not in so far I can't leave, but I am low enough that if cuts come, I'm not safe either.

Nice, there are so many C5 peeps on here. I understand your concern I really do. Like I said I had the same offer back in 2012 with RAH and granted if I would have made it, I still think life wouldn't have been bad, but I would definitely have prolonged my regional days. We just opened up Dulles when they were offering me class dates and I live 45 minutes away bidding number 2 in seniority, I just couldn't pass it up. Your situation is a little different. I think you should still interview there though. I would just be a little more hesitant to leave because of all the changes going on with all the regionals. What place looks strong and is growing one day, is furloughing and parking airplanes the very next week.

 

[Max Power]

Again, I'm offering some unsolicited advice, but, well, here it goes.


If you're actively trying to network, you're absolutely doing it wrong. Try to stay "top of mind" with people who are success-minded, talk about your goals CONSTANTLY, and magic will happen.



Finish it. "I only have a two year degree" and "I have applications out (at the majors)" means that you're pre-planning not to be competitive in a heavily competitive field.





Clear it up. If you can't clear it up, be sure to FULLY COMMUNICATE this to people trying to help you apply at their carriers. If I'm sitting in an employment office and there's a "skeleton" that wasn't divulged to me, you may have just destroyed my professional credibility and my ability to help other great candidates.

As far as unsolicited advice, I would consider posting in an internet forum soliciting from all who wish to reply. I'm appreciative of all responses, especially from those who've been in this game longer.

I put off the two year degree for a long time until I saw the light. Then, I wanted to finish a four year after paying off all my debt. I did pay off all my debt, but then lost my job and had to go back to instructing. Then the 135 hired me and i was expecting to make captain, so I could afford to pay as I went. Then that job went away. I'm not making excuses, I'm just detailing that my plans haven't exactly worked out. I've got the applications out for the majors and nationals because, well, why not? It's a long shot obviously, but it can't hurt can it?

I wouldn't keep secrets from those trying to help me, it's not my nature. I'm willing to explain both situations to anyone willing to listen. The problem is that getting to that point in the job hunt or interview process can be a challenge when there are other people more qualified (four year degree) or with no black marks. I was straight up with C5 and with Delta Private Jets when they interviewed me because I had ticked those boxes off on my applications.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Max Power]

Worry about nothing until you have a job offer.

(not saying you won't get it, but order of events is not insignificant)

Are you my wife?

I have to research the Hell out of something before I even attempt to go through with it. And getting some ideas from forums like this is helpful. I've got some RAH friends who I need to talk to. Planning on interviewing and going from there.

 

[ClarkGriswold]

I work for a company that, on the average day, is about 150% better from an operational point of view too. I've also been a lineholder for a year. I'm lucky. Results not guaranteed.

OMGZ SAMESIES.

But seriously lateral moves can work, just need to do your research. I am very happy I did.