The lateral move

Max Power

Max Power

Well-Known Member
Received a phone call yesterday from RAH for an interview. Right now, I'm at C5 with low seniority but actually rather content. Not a fan of making a lateral move but looking for some guidance, especially from the RAH folks and my other C5 colleagues.

A plus to hanging around Commutair is the upgrade time, still running at about 2 years as far as I know. I've only been here 5 months, so I've still got a while to go. My fear is that with CLE going away, that we might face stagnation of a sort. But perhaps not, as we losing people all the time to various reasons. Captains getting hired, F/O's upgrading or leaving. I'd rather upgrade, as I have no real turbine PIC, but it's still a bit away for me and I fear something happening to C5 before that. Even though the company has done well in the past, that's the past. I feel I'm not vested enough in C5 to not consider moving, but I've still got a job and a sliver of seniority.

CLE has been a good base, since I live in PIT. But now I will be commuting to IAD or EWR (or undetermined 3rd base if we get one). Republic has the PIT base for the Q and E170, but it's a long shot that PIT will stay open forever, so I'm really wary of moving for a possible base. But it would give me an opportunity to be at home a bit more, especially sitting reserve.

I have about 800 hours of Citation time, but nothing heavier or sweptwing. As much as I'd like to see what the Q400 is like, an Embraer (E170 preferred) would give me more jet time. I'm not chasing shiny jet, I'm 36 and have 4000 hours which not a ton, but I'm not 23 with a restricted ATP either. If having E170 or even E145 time helps to keep my career moving, so much the better.I've suffered a few setbacks, so I'd rather keep moving at this point.

I've got some other issues, besides the constant turmoil of labor vs management at Republic( which is always there I suppose). I've got friends at RAH who I'll talk to, but throwing it out to the best and brightest here on JC too. I'd rather move to a legacy, national or LCC instead of another regional, but I don't feel I have the qualifications to go to one any time soon. Trying to consider the ramifications of all, any help is appreciated.

But now the kids are up, gotta go be Daddy.
 
Lateral moves are a gamble that doesn't often work unless there is SIGNIFICANT QOL increases to be gained like being almost certainly based at home.

CLE shrinking may be bad for Commutair...or it may lead to a new base with new flying...you just don't know.

My airline has a less than stellar outlook for the future. I plan on riding it into the ground if it goes that way.
 
I'll play the devil's advocate for a post and say that as someone who did make a somewhat risky lateral move a few years ago, the temporary loss in paycheck, QOL, and seniority can end up being totally worth it a few years later. You just never know.

In the end my decision was made by thinking of it in this manner:

1) What is the worst case scenario if you stay at C5?

2) What is the worse case scenario if you go to RAH?

3) What is the best case scenario if you stay at C5?

4) What is the best case scenario if you go to RAH?



In my case a few years ago, the dreaded lateral move was justified by the fact that the worse case scenario at either company was the same: get furloughed. It wasn't imminent at either, but it was possible.

When I moved to the second pair of questions, the best case, it was very lopsided. I knew that one of them was going to be a lot of stagnation -- not in a bad place, but still, no upgrade for years. The other had a best case scenario of a two year upgrade like you think you are looking at with C5.

With those differences in mind, I concluded that basically the whole point of working in the vendor/regional/fee-for-departure sector of the industry, is to get out. Mind you, I'm not advocating stabbing people in the back or doing anything to get PIC time, but, in the end, an opportunity that gives a better 'escape route' ought to be the better way to go.

From what you've written your decision is not so cut and dry -- but I thought I'd share the reasoning I used when making a lateral move.
 
Nick said:
2) What is the worse case scenario if you go to RAH?

3) What is the best case scenario if you stay at C5?

4) What is the best case scenario if you go to RAH?
Click to expand...

The most likely case is more important than the best or worse cases. And what's most likely to happen is that you spend more years at a regional by moving.
 
Derg said:
Laterals are a wonderful method of extending your career at a regional...

If you're looking to extend your career at the regionals, that is.
Click to expand...

Being at 9E, I've looked at leaving twice, and this is the same conclusion I've come up to after talking to plenty of others who have done it.
 
bronco21016 said:
Being at 9E, I've looked at leaving twice, and this is the same conclusion I've come up to after talking to plenty of others who have done it.
Click to expand...

That's why I had to write a dissenting opinion.

If I didn't make a lateral move, I'd be in upgrade class in five weeks, after seven years.

The lateral move worked out, and I upgrade three years ago. No matter what happens, I mean, my current company could shut down tomorrow, and it still would have been worth it. It ended up being 1500PIC difference; that's how to get out of the regionals.

But one should be verrryyyy careful and consider all options, that's all.
 
If you're going to do a lateral move I wouldn't go to a Mega regional like RAH. PSA, Compass and Mesa are good bets. Apparently the junior Capt at PSA next July has not been hired yet
 
Nick said:
That's why I had to write a dissenting opinion.

If I didn't make a lateral move, I'd be in upgrade class in five weeks, after seven years.

The lateral move worked out, and I upgrade three years ago. No matter what happens, I mean, my current company could shut down tomorrow, and it still would have been worth it. It ended up being 1500PIC difference; that's how to get out of the regionals.

But one should be verrryyyy careful and consider all options, that's all.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

One of my good friends from my ASA new hire class made a lateral move about year ago. He's now a 121 Captain. Had he stayed he would be waiting at least another year for upgrade.

Gather all available information, weigh your options, and make a decision. Good luck, and may the odds be forever in your favor
 
From the peanut gallery here, but if all you have are applications out and you're expecting a major to call, they're not. Probably ever.


If you don't have at least three contacts at every carrier you want to work for, you're doing it wrong.

Get busy.
 
I do have applications in at many carriers of all shapes and sizes, but I've never been good at networking. The other sticking point I feel is that I only have a two year degree plus some other "baggage". Nothing that is truly awful IF I get a chance to explain it, but having to tick some extra boxes on those applications probably pushes me into the denied pile. PM if you want details, I've aired some dirty laundry elsewhere on here.

Worst case for C5? Company closes in June, putting me out on the street and further behind those already at RAH seniority wise, extending upgrade time further. I don't see this happening. Right now...

Best case for C5: Hang around and upgrade, sit reserve while commuting to third base, IAD or EWR. Hope that next contract brings up more QOL standard and pay.

Worst case RAH: Get hired for Q400 or E170 and stuck at a base I can't get out of to (and that's tough to commute to) to get PIT. Or get PIT, only to have them close it sooner than later and then being stuck at said base. Upgrade stops and stuck in right seat for a longer period of time. Or having to walk a picket line after getting hired...

Best case RAH: Getting E170 and staying in PIT until I choose to leave RAH. More probable: Getting Q400 and staying in PIT until I choose to leave. I'm OK with a turboprop, but if getting pure jet time helps, then that's preferable.

Getting a bachelors degree is something I've wanted to do. But we are debt free save for the house and one car and I don't want to go back into debt for school. The online degree programs offered make it much easier now, but not cheaper.

Thanks to all so far.
 
I don't understand why regionals don't do tuition reimbursement. Or do they? Seems like a tax break.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Lateral moves are a gamble that doesn't often work unless there is SIGNIFICANT QOL increases to be gained like being almost certainly based at home.

CLE shrinking may be bad for Commutair...or it may lead to a new base with new flying...you just don't know.

My airline has a less than stellar outlook for the future. I plan on riding it into the ground if it goes that way.
Click to expand...

Yeah, knowing where that third base is would help. If there is one, but its about a 50/50 split in opinion that we will have a third base or won't. I'm sure there's turboprop lift needed in the UAL system, but who knows.
 
If you feel like your "blackmark" whatever it is, could be career limiting, it may not be a bad idea to position yourself at a more "career" regional. The 2 year degree vs. 4 year degree will also limit your possibilities of moving up.
 
Career regional?

Even if it was a realistic expectation that the regional system, today, will survive another 30 years, it's like bringing home an admittedly Herpetic paramour for chicken and intercourse.
 
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