The Great Jumpseat War of 2019

Skywest pilots, you should all be careful about who you listen to and follow “into battle” on this. Ask a Comair pilot how it worked out for them when their bitter lifers who had no chance or desire to move on to Delta decided to wage a war against mainline pilots. JC Lawson and crew are long since retired after their airline was driven into extinction, and all of the young pilots they were supposed to be serving were screwed and barely any of them got the opportunity to be Delta pilots in the years since. Hell, mention the word Comair to a Delta South pilot who was furloughed during the 00s and watch his face curl into a sneer purely by reflex.

You don‘t want lifers who either don’t have a chance or don’t even desire to move on to UAL making these decisions for you and possibly creating a lasting animosity that could keep you out of a career airline.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
Skywest pilots, you should all be careful about who you listen to and follow “into battle” on this. Ask a Comair pilot how it worked out for them when their bitter lifers who had no chance or desire to move on to Delta decided to wage a war against mainline pilots. JC Lawson and crew are long since retired after their airline was driven into extinction, and all of the young pilots they were supposed to be serving were screwed and barely any of them got the opportunity to be Delta pilots in the years since. Hell, mention the word Comair to a Delta South pilot who was furloughed during the 00s and watch his face curl into a sneer purely by reflex.

You don‘t want lifers who either don’t have a chance or don’t even desire to move on to UAL making these decisions for you and possibly creating a lasting animosity that could keep you out of a career airline.
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This.

O and lets not forget if it wasn't for these contracts most of the regional jobs would be non existent.

Incredibly shortsighted.
 
So as an OO employee that doesn’t want to leave anyone behind Im trying to think of solutions here. I don’t really see A priority list anywhere in the agreement that’s been posted with the signatures of the UA and SkyWest. So as far as I can tell the agreement hasn’t been broken. Also the other document that SAPA posted with the priorities is so outdated that it’s also wrong. It still has ExpressJet pilots getting priority on SkyWest flights and has airlines that don’t exist anymore. So all I have to go off of is what’s still in our FOM, which I guess I don’t really know where that priority list comes from, but it’s all I have. So if we have a jumpseater and as long as we go up and make sure the jumpseater that makes it on is the one that was supposed to based on the FOM I don’t really see anything done wrong, right?
 
Here’s the thing I think many are not understanding. Skywest may own a lot of airplanes themselves BUT they are all contracted out to be flown for a mainline carrier. They make the rules more or less when the plane is operated in their system. Without them the planes would not fly and the jobs would not exist. It sucks but that is reality.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
Here’s the thing I think many are not understanding. Skywest may own a lot of airplanes themselves BUT they are all contracted out to be flown for a mainline carrier. They make the rules more or less when the plane is operated in their system. Without them the planes would not fly and the jobs would not exist. It sucks but that is reality.
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Definitely true, but the contracts still have terms that both parties agree to and just because United runs the show doesn’t mean they get to change those terms just because they want to. Again, I don’t even know if that applies to this situation because I haven’t seen jumpseater priority in any signed document but the way some people are talking it seems like United should be able to do whatever they want whenever they want.
 
Cory Trevor said:
Definitely true, but the contracts still have terms that both parties agree to and just because United runs the show doesn’t mean they get to change those terms just because they want to. Again, I don’t even know if that applies to this situation because I haven’t seen jumpseater priority in any signed document but the way some people are talking it seems like United should be able to do whatever they want whenever they want.
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If it was agreed to and changed like you think this is not the avenue to correct it and will do more harm than good. To answer your question above why don’t you let the gate agent handle it?
 
ClarkGriswold said:
If it was agreed to and changed like you think this is not the avenue to correct it and will do more harm than good. To answer your question above why don’t you let the gate agent handle it?
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So we both agree that this isn't the way to correct it. Again, I haven't seen anything signed by both companies laying out a specific jumpseat priority so I'll just follow the FOM and let people on based on that. Which, in my 4 years at the airlines so far, hasn't left anyone behind that would have made the flight based on the new priority list anyway.
 
Denying jumpseat’s seems a bit of an extreme reaction here. I never saw anyone denied the JS even in the darkest days at xjt when our planes were constantly being transferred to Skywest and we were shrinking rapidly. Also seems unfair to deny TSA, Commutair, and other regionals who have exactly zero control over any of this.
 
OO captain in Denver and a United hopeful. This is the last thing I want to happen and I know nothing good will come of this for us. But like many others, it appears we don’t have a say in the matter here. I’ve spent years trying to get noticed by UAL and this isn’t what I had in mind.
 
Ayork62493 said:
OO captain in Denver and a United hopeful. This is the last thing I want to happen and I know nothing good will come of this for us. But like many others, it appears we don’t have a say in the matter here. I’ve spent years trying to get noticed by UAL and this isn’t what I had in mind.
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You have a choice. SAPA has no authority. Ignore their directions.
 
JordanD said:
They’re rolling out the scare tactics saying if captains take them they’re violating the FOM and are risking certificate action from the feds. FOM hasn’t changed and the only communication has been from SAPA, absolutely nothing from SGU yet.
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I know I’m preaching to the choir, as you’re smart enough to already know better, but the feds don’t give a damn who rides your jumpseat as long as they’re verified through CASS.
 
JordanD said:
They’re rolling out the scare tactics saying if captains take them they’re violating the FOM and are risking certificate action from the feds. FOM hasn’t changed and the only communication has been from SAPA, absolutely nothing from SGU yet.
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FOM says jumpseat priority is not regulatory so I don't know where SAPA is coming from on this and I don't know how a captain at OO could deny a JSer for it.

You know what the saddest part is? The messages from SAPA seem more threatening to the pilot group that they're supposed to be representing than anything.
 
Cory Trevor said:
FOM says jumpseat priority is not regulatory so I don't know where SAPA is coming from on this and I don't know how a captain at OO could deny a JSer for it.

You know what the saddest part is? The messages from SAPA seem more threatening to the pilot group that they're supposed to be representing than anything.
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That’s a royal frakking shock, said nobody ever.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
Here’s the thing I think many are not understanding. Skywest may own a lot of airplanes themselves BUT they are all contracted out to be flown for a mainline carrier. They make the rules more or less when the plane is operated in their system. Without them the planes would not fly and the jobs would not exist. It sucks but that is reality.
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Under a CPA Nonetheless. They have no leg to stand on really. If it were at risk flying maybe they would have more of an argument.
 
I do find it ironic though that one of the loudest complainers about going to a policy like this though in the past has been the ExpressJet MEC. Of course now that they did get priority, they are silent, but ironic nonetheless.
 
Cory Trevor said:
FOM says jumpseat priority is not regulatory so I don't know where SAPA is coming from on this and I don't know how a captain at OO could deny a JSer for it.

You know what the saddest part is? The messages from SAPA seem more threatening to the pilot group that they're supposed to be representing than anything.
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If they’re in cass and have an agreement isn’t it pretty much captains discretion anyway? Granted if you kick someone off and take someone else because you don’t like the guy’s face you might get in trouble with the company/union, but I can’t think of a world in which the FAA cares.

The way some of the reps talk to the pilots on the sapa forums is unreal. Any criticism is sometimes outright mocked.
 
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