The Attack on the 2nd Amendment Continues

We can take my example of Obama Care out of it then.

However, explain to me then the period from 1861-1865? We had a large percentage of the population feeling abused, they bore arms, and this country was torn apart for decades in the aftermath.

Also you over simplified the Whiskey Rebellion.

The Whiskey Rebellion was because of high taxation on liquors.

The convocation of protecting states rights was felt necessary by those who took up arms to defend them. That was their right, and still is ours today. There was more to that than the Second Amendment.
 
I do agree it was close up until July 3rd 1863 but after that, the South didn't have a chance.

I wouldn't even say close, the South was more tactically capable of fighting a war. The second part brings up a good point of discussion though, why after that date could the Confederate not maintain momentum?
 
No it was very close, it really could have gone either way.

It could be argued a few reasons why that date. They obviously all tie into the Southern retreat at Gettysburg.
 
Think the biggest part of your Civil War references and the like are that the history books are always written by the victor... To say that the losers were completely WRONG in their thinking is, at the very least, closed minded.

While I would agree that Hitler, slavery, and many of the other war subjects throughout history have been against better judgement... To say that each of them KNEW they were doing wrong and chose to fight the righteousness of the American government is a stretch.

So, to say that the American people would never need the arms they have been guaranteed through the 2nd amendment because of the American governments amazing prior track record is also pretty closed minded.

Do I think that we'll need to take arms up against the government any time in my life time? Probably not. But like others have stated, once a right is lost, it's very difficult to get back.
 
Think the biggest part of your Civil War references and the like are that the history books are always written by the victor... To say that the losers were completely WRONG in their thinking is, at the very least, closed minded.

While I would agree that Hitler, slavery, and many of the other war subjects throughout history have been against better judgement... To say that each of them KNEW they were doing wrong and chose to fight the righteousness of the American government is a stretch.

So, to say that the American people would never need the arms they have been guaranteed through the 2nd amendment because of the American governments amazing prior track record is also pretty closed minded.

Do I think that we'll need to take arms up against the government any time in my life time? Probably not. But like others have stated, once a right is lost, it's very difficult to get back.

It's also closed minded to think you are going to win in a war with the US Government today.
 
I know - completely stupid right. I mean, that would be about as likely as a backward nation like Afghanistan winning wars against each of the superpowers or something.

An overstatement to say 'winning wars' -- militarily, Iraq and Afghanistan were not remotely a match for US power. Both countries were invaded and occupied within weeks, their organized state militaries having been completely dominated.

What followed, however, were insurgencies -- loosely organized civilian militias which created havoc in the civil order after actual military offensive operations had ceased.

There's a very important difference there.

Unfortunately, that difference also highlights that a loosely-organized group with only small arms can wreak havoc on a military occupation with guerilla-style tactics. It happened in Iraq and Afghanistan against part of US military power (obviously the "full might" of US military power was not wielded there, and significant conservative rules of engagement limited what US forces trying to maintain order were allowed to do), including all manner of airpower. That means it can most definitely happen at home, too.

Let's not forget that, even with very, very low US casualties over a decade of war, the US population had all ready lost much of their will to fight. Think of how that will would be different if those being killed on both sides of the fighting were US citizens.

The idea that the Confederacy did not win a war in the 19th century, and therefore no such uprising could ever succeed today (without having any idea what such an uprising would look like), is quite a leap of logic. In and of itself, that is meaningless.
 
Hacker15e said:
The idea that the Confederacy did not win a war in the 19th century, and therefore no such uprising could ever succeed today (without having any idea what such an uprising would look like), is quite a leap of logic. In and of itself, that is meaningless.

No the point is we already saw this uprising that y'all are saying is the reason the 2nd Amendment was written. The Confederacy felt the government was abusing their power, they declared independence and war was fought. The Northern States were labeling the South as traitors, the South, the North as dictators. While you champion the 2nd Amendment it's a dangerous road to go down as its not black and white to all what is or what is not government abuse.

A more pragmatic approach is needed to this amendment and gun control.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I would say that "shall not be infringed" is pretty black and white.

So did the South in their position concerning slavery and other 'oppressions' of the North.
 
No it was very close, it really could have gone either way.

It could be argued a few reasons why that date. They obviously all tie into the Southern retreat at Gettysburg.

Yeah, McClellan had a chance! Union leadership was in shambles, The President had to muck through the criticism and come up with a plan, and the South was effective at fear tactics, guerrilla tactics, and them boys could shoot.

Well lets hear them! Not for argument, I enjoy discussion on the Civil war.
 
Actually I was a political science major in college so it taught me to look at things differently and see these documents and those who wrote them as flawed, unlike others.

Funny, I was a political science major as well, and while it taught me to look at things differently, the bill of rights were pretty cut and dry clear as to what they mean and how they are interpreted. I guess it would be stupid of me to think that a biased professor couldn't skew any document into what he or she believed. Believe me I saw it on more than one occasion. Rarely in constitutional law but it happened. Either way, as usual, you cannot be swayed of your views and I cannot be swayed on mine. Doesn't matter if the Supreme Court came out and blatantly said how it was to be interpreted, you would still argue it differently...ohh wait, they did come out and say how it was interpreted.
 
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