The Attack on the 2nd Amendment Continues

I hope nobody here actually thinks that there will be a "gun grab". You have to truly be an idiot to think that will happen in a country with more guns than people. Stricter gun laws, perhaps. Will they help? Probably not much. Should we be trying whatever we can to stop the next class of children from being shot? Definitely. It's rather frightening to me that people think they have such a great duty to protect freedom and keep the federal government at bay, which is a total fantasy, but forget about the freedom of everybody else to not get shot at school.

I'd like to say once again, I don't think an AWB is a good solution and I don't think it will help. But the attitude of gun enthusiasts/gun nuts is much more angering to me than than the imaginary government oppression that might come if everybody doesn't have an AR15.
 
Mark815 said:
Fine. Let's ban all gun and ammo. When another mass shooting occurs and guns are already banned, then what?
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Guns and ammo are what everybody wants to ban right now. If they are gone nobody can blame lax gun laws for the shooting, and they will be forced to confront the actual problems. If the status quo for guns doesn't change then they will be blamed just the same when the next shooting happens.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Yes, let's listen to Jon Stewart instead of the Supreme Court of the United States.

Talk about "scholars." :rolleyes:
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Wait...
gotWXdagain said:
Jon Stewart said it best, that the second amendment's right to bear arms is not a free for all for anyone to have whatever ammo they desire.
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SCOTUS Heller Decision said:
Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose
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I'm not really seeing how what John Stewart apparently says (can't find the direct quote, but I think this captures what he's getting at) contradicts the supreme court.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
Many states actually have a volunteer militia, in addition to the national guard, they normally just assist with disaster clean up etc.
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Or some states have nut job militias

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-militia-mole-20130113,0,4654308.story

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In another life, William Fulton was "Drop Zone Bill," a bounty hunter who ran a military surplus store in Anchorage. You need a tactical vest? A bayonet that would clip neatly onto an M-4? Bill Fulton was your man.
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"We do bad things to bad people," his company jackets said.​
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Fulton was also a go-to guy for Republican politicians who occasionally needed to reach out to the far right fringes of the party — those who spent weekends in the woods in camo gear and considered the 2nd Amendment an expression of divine intent.

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When then-Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin was plotting a move against the Republican Party chief at the state convention in 2008, Fulton was there strategizing over whiskey and cigars with Palin staffer Frank Bailey and Joe Miller,who later made a well-publicized runfor the U.S. Senate as a tea partyconservative.

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That was the meetingwhere Fulton was introduced to Schaeffer Cox, an up-and-coming young firebrand of the far right who was running for the state Legislature and had, as it turned out, plans that went well beyond upending the Republican Party in Alaska.

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It was a meeting that opened the door to a dangerous cat-and-mouse game that would transform the two men's lives and leave them at opposite ends of one of the federal government's biggest prosecutions of right-wing extremism on the West Coast.

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Cox, 28, was sentenced Tuesday to 25 years in prison for heading a militia that plotted to kill judges and other government employees and conspired to accumulate the firepower needed to do it from Fulton. And Fulton, who became one of two key informants the FBI used to gather evidence against Cox and his cohorts, went from being the Alaska Peacemakers Militia's "supply sergeant" to its most celebrated snitch​
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Seggy said:
OK.

Then how do you explain the fact that the Federal Government through the Constitution and Bill of Rights still allowed slavery and women not to vote, even though the Founders kept saying "all men are created equal".

We went bak and corrected those omissions, maybe it's time we fix some omissions to the 2nd Amendment.
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The phrase "all men are created equal" is in neither the Consitution nor the Bill of Rights. It's in the Declaration of Independence. Though the concept is clearly carried over in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. No scholar here by the way, just someone who paid attention in 2nd grade civics lessons.
 
The Fez said:
The phrase "all men are created equal" is in neither the Consitution nor the Bill of Rights. It's in the Declaration of Independence. Though the concept is clearly carried over in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. No scholar here by the way, just someone who paid attention in 2nd grade civics lessons.
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I know that.
 
thevideographer said:
Guns and ammo are what everybody wants to ban right now. If they are gone nobody can blame lax gun laws for the shooting, and they will be forced to confront the actual problems. If the status quo for guns doesn't change then they will be blamed just the same when the next shooting happens.
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They won't, they'll just blame the fact that it took them decades to ban guns, and in that amount of time millions of guns wound up on the street. No matter what, guns will always be the problem for many politicians.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Those federal laws are still in place, and the feds can choose to enforce them at any time they choose. But the Obama administration has no desire to enforce them (because secretly they agree that pot should be legal). But if they wanted to enforce the federal law, then Colorado, Washington, and the states with medical marijuana would be helpless to stop the feds from enforcing it.
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Nice to see someone in power pick and choose what laws they want to enforce. :bang:
 
Hacker15e said:
What kind of fix would you specifically propose?
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To begin here is what we can do...

-If you want to buy a gun there is a mandatory six month wait unless you pay a $5000 tax per gun to get it earlier provided you have completed an in depth back ground check that includes a mental health exam

-As a said an in depth back ground check that includes a mental health exam

-For every gun related death per year, so say there are 10,000 gun related deaths per year in America gun owners are expected to pay a dollar per death on their yearly income taxes, so $10,000. This is in addition to a yearly tax of $1000 per gun one owns

-Gun dealers must pay a $5000 tax per gun they sell as well. This is in addition to a one time fee of $500,000 to be allowed to sell guns per store. So Walmart or Dick's Sporting Goods would need to pay that for every store they want to sell guns.

-Yearly gun 'recurrent' classes that are between 2-3 days long that promote safety. If you want to go to more than one a year, you can get up to a $5000 rebate on the above new taxes

-If a gun dealer has more than three guns per every five years used in a violent crime, they lose the right to sell guns for a period of 5 years and then need to pay the $500,000 fee again PLUS an additional $2,000,000 reapplication fee.

-The above monies would be used to bolster law enforcement to suppress the black market on fire arms.


There has been so much pontification about 'mental health' from your side of the argument, so with that in mind, we can use the above monies to bolster mental health treatment and other health treatment for Americans. How does the above work for y'all?
 
WacoFan said:
It is particularly frustrating arguing with Liberals, isn't it ATN? Plus, those bastards in the news media pushing an agenda that is against ours. Both of those things, just frustrating wouldn't you say?
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I have never met anyone who has been more consistently wrong about things than you.

So I am not sure what you are getting at here???:confused:
 
Maurus said:
Nice to see someone in power pick and choose what laws they want to enforce. :bang:
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It happens everyday with a variety of laws. There were still sodomy laws on the books in many states up until the late 90s, yet most prisons didn't have a sodomite wing.

So far there isn't a legal framework for the retail sale of marijuana in colorado. Which means federal enforcement of the law would involve going after hippies with dime bags, I've never heard of the FBI performing that role, have you?

Also, the justice department cracked down on dispenceraries that were near schools and requiring them to provide their own supply. 5 dispenceraries closed on my old street last year because of the crackdown. Right now most dispenceraries are located in industrial areas. Who knows if the admin will let retail stores go through.
 
Seggy said:
To begin here is what we can do...

-If you want to buy a gun there is a mandatory six month wait unless you pay a $5000 tax per gun to get it earlier provided you have completed an in depth back ground check that includes a mental health exam

-As a said an in depth back ground check that includes a mental health exam

-For every gun related death per year, so say there are 10,000 gun related deaths per year in America gun owners are expected to pay a dollar per death on their yearly income taxes, so $10,000. This is in addition to a yearly tax of $1000 per gun one owns

-Gun dealers must pay a $5000 tax per gun they sell as well. This is in addition to a one time fee of $500,000 to be allowed to sell guns per store. So Walmart or Dick's Sporting Goods would need to pay that for every store they want to sell guns.

-Yearly gun 'recurrent' classes that are between 2-3 days long that promote safety. If you want to go to more than one a year, you can get up to a $5000 rebate on the above new taxes

-If a gun dealer has more than three guns per every five years used in a violent crime, they lose the right to sell guns for a period of 5 years and then need to pay the $500,000 fee again PLUS an additional $2,000,000 reapplication fee.

-The above monies would be used to bolster law enforcement to suppress the black market on fire arms.


There has been so much pontification about 'mental health' from your side of the argument, so with that in mind, we can use the above monies to bolster mental health treatment and other health treatment for Americans. How does the above work for y'all?
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So that only the super rich have guns? And that law abiding citizens like myself become law breakers?
 
Seggy said:
But water was not a tool specifically designed to kill/hurt people, like guns were. BIG difference.
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But it absolutely is used to kill, Maime, hurt, and control people.

Sorry, but the imposed taxes you suggest would get any politician run out of office faster than you could believe. Gun laws have to be realistic to pass, and those are not. Trying to push that through is unrealistic... And once again, it would require registration (not going to happen) and at that point, only the law abiding people, that don't use guns to commit crimes, would follow the law, and be therefore punished.

The moment you modify the constitution to control the population, is the moment it becomes worthless.

Simply, if you don't like guns, fine. Don't buy one. But, don't try to tell me that I can't buy one because you don like it.
 
Seggy said:
I have never met anyone who has been more consistently wrong about things than you.

So I am not sure what you are getting at here???:confused:
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I'm getting at the fact that arguing with liberals, or libs arguing with conservatives is a pointless endeavor. Neither side will find common ground because neither side even finds a little bit of what the other offers as desirable or good. Better to part ways.
 
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