Thank You Glenn Beck!!!!

aloft

aloft

New Member
Was just watching a segment on Glenn Beck's show on the airline industry, and he just called attention to "$20,000" first year regional salaries!! YES!!!!!

His guest, a writer for FORTUNE, said "yeah, but they're 21 years old."

Beck shoots back "if you're the pilot and 21 years old making twenty grand, keep the cabin door shut, I don't want to know that!"

He continued, saying the airlines can cut costs all they want, just "NOT THE PILOTS!!!" he exclaimed.

It'll repeat later tonight, don't miss it!
 
The problem isn't regional pay as much as Regional Jets! When you farm out mainline flying with RJ's you don't need mainline qualifications or mainline pay. Especially in the right seat. If you can't get a PIC photography job doesn't that say something that you can get an RJ job. Pay is for qualifications. If pay was related directly to safety then the FAA might step in and pass some type of requirement for time in the right seat which could lead to higher pay.
 
If you can't get a PIC photography job doesn't that say something that you can get an RJ job.
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I'm not defending the low quals to get into an RJ/commuter-what-have-you but the fact of the matter is FO's share very little responsibility.

Realistically the PIC in the photo plane has much more responsibility on their shoulders than the FO flying the RJ.

The age shouldn't have anything to do with it. I met a US Air guy who was hired at 21 into mainline equipment, just as there are mid-30's guys in new hire classes at the regionals.
 
wheelsup said:
I'm not defending the low quals to get into an RJ/commuter-what-have-you but the fact of the matter is FO's share very little responsibility.
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Going to have to disagree with you there. Yeah, the Captain is final authority, but if we (the crew...we're in this together) screws up and it leads to an enforcement action, we're both getting in trouble.
 
Way to derail the thread.

His point was he doesn't want to see in the cockpit the sort of caliber that a 21 year old making $20k/yr represents, relative to the rest of the labor market. His presumption is "you get what you pay for", and he wants pilots worth more than that in the cockpit.

It's got nothing to do with WHAT they're flying.
 
Who was it that said they always flew Delta, because they have the highest paid pilots therefore they are the happiest pilots? Some TV persona. Anyway, I would agree, $20k/yr to be up front is a sign of the times. But I know guys working 135 on call 24/7 in the NYC area making $30k as FO's in biz jets, so it's not just the airlines. The commuters have always, ALWAYS been low paid. Now it's just with better equipment.
 
And that would be a great point, if people were charged less for flying aboard a "commmuter", but even when purchasing a ticket between major hubs, you're as likely to fly on a regional partner as on a mainline flight. It's a bait-and-switch, and I'm surprised no one's sued the airlines over it yet. Like it or not, passengers assume a greater risk flying with less-experienced regional crews than with mainline crews, but are not compensated accordingly.
 
I just saw the replay. The guy was actually defending the terrible pay. It also seemed like he wanted to say, those guys will fly for free after he said "they are even making 20% less and kept most of the good pilots". Not saying the pilots flying now are not good, but I am sure many good pilots were lost. Glenn did not seemed to pleased with that guy defending it. I normally am not a fan of his but today he has my approval.
 
wheelsup said:
Realistically the PIC in the photo plane has much more responsibility on their shoulders than the FO flying the RJ.
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Someone flying single pilot has a great responsibility indeed.

If you bust an altitude, the responsibility is the same.
 
That's exactly the problem. Until the pool of pilots willing to fly for welfare wages dries up, pilot pay will remain exactly where it is OR deteriorate.

Pilots. We're our own worst enemy.
 
I'm willing to work for "welfare wages" as you call it because I hope someday it will lead to bigger and better. Unless I bought my own planes there is no other way to build the time short of working for "welfare wages" or going into the military, but even some of those guys end up at the "welfare wage" level.

What exactly is your history Velocipede?
 
wheelsup said:
I'm not defending the low quals to get into an RJ/commuter-what-have-you but the fact of the matter is FO's share very little responsibility.

Realistically the PIC in the photo plane has much more responsibility on their shoulders than the FO flying the RJ.

The age shouldn't have anything to do with it. I never said it does. Its Time, experience in airplanes. I met a US Air guy who was hired at 21 into mainline equipment Back in the 60's or 70's?, just as there are mid-30's guys in new hire classes at the regionals.
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FO misses an altitude or heading you both can get in just as much trouble as if he did it by himself in a cessna. The low time guys make a higher work load for the CA.The FAA doesnt care who the PF and the PM are. You are both there. It causes a much higher work load for the CA when you have low time guys that have a myopic view of the cockpit to no fault of their own. If you have less than a 1,000 hours you have less than a 1,000 hours period. They can do all the stuff in the training enviroment, but the situational awareness and savvy in the aircraft has something to be desired. At mainline you have been a captain/PIC of something so you are paid accordingly and contribute to the judgment in the cockpit accordingly.
 
Yes, missing an altitude, heading, etc. will hurt both pilots. I'm referring more to the responsibility of operating the flight. The CA signs the release, double checks what the FO tells him, "trusts yet verifies" etc.

YOU didn't say age was a factor but the guy in the OP's post did. Hence my comment about age. I didn't quote your name in my quote for a reason :). Doing the math the guy was hired in 1979-ish.
 
aloft said:
Was just watching a segment on Glenn Beck's show on the airline industry, and he just called attention to "$20,000" first year regional salaries!! YES!!!!!

His guest, a writer for FORTUNE, said "yeah, but they're 21 years old."

Beck shoots back "if you're the pilot and 21 years old making twenty grand, keep the cabin door shut, I don't want to know that!"

He continued, saying the airlines can cut costs all they want, just "NOT THE PILOTS!!!" he exclaimed.

It'll repeat later tonight, don't miss it!
Click to expand...

Wow! Beck just scored huge points in my book! Finally someone noticed!!!!

:nana2:
 
Velocipede said:
That's exactly the problem. Until the pool of pilots willing to fly for welfare wages dries up, pilot pay will remain exactly where it is OR deteriorate.
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OR....

Public outcry demands change. But before public outcry can happen, public awareness needs to happen, which is why I was so happy to hear Beck comment on it. He's aware, and obviously takes issue with the matter.

The thing, really, is that the flying public expects that the crew of their RJ is as experienced as the crew of their 767, and that's a misperception that can be fixed. Are the airlines doing their part? Of course not. The left seat of an RJ is where you should go after having risen up through the widebody FO ranks, before moving to the left seat of a 737 or MD80/88/90--NOT after only a couple years in the right seat of that RJ.

If the flying public knew how inexperienced you guys just upgrading at the regionals are, compared to the average mainline captain, you'd see that public outcry. But they have no idea.

And they won't, until someone pays for a full page ad in the New York Times that says:

"The captain of the regional jet
you're flying in today
isn't even qualified to be a co-pilot
 on the 757 you flew in yesterday.

Still happy you saved $70 on your ticket?"

​
 
People really don't care.

We took out quarter page ads in the business section of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel back when I worked on the communications committee at Skyway comparing our FO's to, of all things, the people working the food concessionary in MKE.

I can't remember the headline of the ad, but it was something snarky like the 'hot dog you ate before your flight was made by someone with higher compensation and benefits than the pilot of the plane you're flying on' or something like that. I can't remember too well because it's been 12 or 13 years.

I think the day it ran, I maybe got one "Wow, I thought you guys made more, hey, how's the weather in Madison, are we going to be on time?".

As long as planes aren't falling from the skies, people honestly... SADLY... don't care.
 
aloft said:
"The captain of the regional jet
you're flying in today
isn't even qualified to be a co-pilot
 on the 757 you flew in yesterday.
​
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The problem with that statement is it's just not true. What qualifications do you need to be in the right seat of a 757? A commercial multi-instrument and an SIC type. See Europe and Asia as examples. Hell Delta wants just 1200 hours TT with no turbine PIC as their "min qualifications".

And pointing out or even inferring that the regionals/commuters hire at unsafe levels opens up a huge can of worms that will get the airlines legal departments attention pronto.
 
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