Teaching the landing attitude

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Nick2024

Well-Known Member
Ok what tips can my fellow CFI's impart on me! I am trying like heck to get my students to not flare so high every time, I have made them fly down the centerline in slow flight while I control the trottle and if the are stable and not drifting i take it out and they land, worked for one but others are still flaring high and holding it instead of releasing some back pressure. or adding the small amount of power.


Tips?
 
(1) Have them sit in the airplane for a while without the engine running. Tell them to memorize that sight picture. Some instructors will go back to the tail and push it down for them to more closely simulate the landing attitude. Where I've found this technique to be critical is when sending a student up for their first solo in a single seat glider. They have to do it right the first time and their tail is a lot closer to the ground than it was in their training glider.

(2) Have him fly low from one end of the runway to the other just holding it off. You really need to be following through on the controls when they do this because there isn't much room for error and very little time to react. I've been told that the Air Force used to use this technique in some really big airplanes with success.

(3) Have him teach you. Remember that old FOI stuff about how much you retain of what you see, hear, feel, and say. They learn more if they are talking than if they are listening even if he is just parroting what you are saying. You fly the landing and have him coach you through the landing.
 
Sometimes flaring too high seemed to be a matter of the student focusing their eyes at the aiming point instead of at the end of the runway. So I placed a big emphasis on putting your eyes at the end of the runway. I also tried not to talk of "a flare" because the student may begin to think there is a sudden pull-up motion needed and they'll end up ballooning. I would explain that there is a smooth and slow transition to the landing attitude beginning at the threshold while continuing a shallowing descent until right above the runway, holding it a foot above the runway by trading airspeed for AOA, bringing the top of the panel to the end of the runway at the moment of touchdown. I also liked to teach that "you don't land the airplane, the airplane lands itself. The airplane was not done flying if you landed flat." in an attempt to stop landing flat. The top of the panel should be at the end of the runway by touchdown. Once they get that down, it's a matter of keeping them on the centerline because they are so focused on pitch control that they have a difficult time paying attention to wind correction. I solved that issue by reminding them with "Centerline, centerline, centerline" on short final and encouraging them to be aggressive with the ailerons and rudder to correct for this.
 
I agree with the above, 80% of the time I find this to be the problem. They need to transition their eyes to the end of the runway to achieve the Vy pitch attitude on landing.
 
I use rectangular course. Start at 3,000ft' AGL, and fly the pattern like you normally would, then on base take flight controls, show where the nose should go in relation to the horizon, go to the buffet, and hold the attitude without completely stalling the plane. It's worked for me on numerous occasions.

You can also hold the landing attitude above the runway at the stall horn down the runway. This works too, just be careful that close to the ground.
 
Tell them to settle the airplane into ground effect, and when established there with the throttle at idle, using only the yoke dont allow the airplane to touch down
 
I just had a student who was landing nose wheel first every time so I sent him to fly with a lifetime flight instructor. What they did together was the instructor demoed 3 or 4 landings then had the student do one. If he did it well then he let him do the next landing if not he would demo one again. The flight went really well and after 7 landings of the instructor and 7 landings of the student he is landing straight and on centerline.
 
Worked on landings with a new student last night. First I had him do wheelies up and down a 7,500' runway, if the nose dropped we heard the chirp and maybe a little shudder, if he went too high he hit the tail tie-down... pretty quick feedback to get the correct attitude burned into the memory, plus with different taxi speeds and power settings lets him feel how you have to have a light grip on the yoke to feel the difference in elevator pressure required to maintain the proper attitude, and use peripheral vision. Then we transitioned to doing stop and goes (I think this is better than touch and goes when practical because it lets him process and store what happened on each approach and gives me a chance to debrief each landing before we have to hit the power and start flying again). Had him fly a stabilized approach to three feet and then begin a slow transition, reminding him to "try to hold the mains off" at 12"...6"... (told him to imagine he needs to land the airplane by sliding his butt across the ground,not his heels - this made sense to him - hey, whatever works) and during this reminding him this is the same sight picture we had doing the wheelies. Kid's first three landings ever and we greased them with the stall horn right at touch down and he held the nose wheel off..... I'm really new to this, but this worked very good for him, we'll see how well it works going forward.
 
KHanson said:
I use rectangular course. Start at 3,000ft' AGL, and fly the pattern like you normally would, then on base take flight controls, show where the nose should go in relation to the horizon, go to the buffet, and hold the attitude without completely stalling the plane. It's worked for me on numerous occasions.

You can also hold the landing attitude above the runway at the stall horn down the runway. This works too, just be careful that close to the ground.
Click to expand...

That is how I learned how to land a 140, stall it with full flaps looking outside. I can still hear that instructor telling me "this is exactly what it looks like in the flare, except the ground will be right under you."
 
I think flaring too high is more a symptom of fear of hitting the ground than an "attitude" problem. But what can help in either case is the student beginning to notice the airplane's attitude and position relative to the ground when the mains leave the ground on takeoff. It's the same as should be recreated for landing.
 
One more thing to check -- Seat Position. Make sure he finds a comfortable seat position that offers the proper sight picture and make sure he uses it every time he flies, otherwise it will be difficult to obtain consistency. I went as far to have my students crank the seat all the way up or down in the C172 and then count the number of cranks from this known position to obtain the correct height.
 
ScoutFlyer said:
One more thing to check -- Seat Position. Make sure he finds a comfortable seat position that offers the proper sight picture and make sure he uses it every time he flies, otherwise it will be difficult to obtain consistency. I went as far to have my students crank the seat all the way up or down in the C172 and then count the number of cranks from this known position to obtain the correct height.
Click to expand...
Seat Position. AGREED! As the instructor, I tell all my n00bie instructors, set YOUR seat exactly where you need it, then set their so when you look at them your eyes lock with one another, and you don't have to look up or down to their eyes. Works every time for me thus far...

Another error in landings and fears (since were on that topic) that I notice a lot is students that get into the flare, and shove the nose forward. Why? Majority of the time it's a combination of death gripping and over controlling with a little added spice of FEAR of losing sight of the runway and ground in front of them...
 
Get them looking down towards the end of the runway when transitioning in the flare. On short final, they are looking at their aim point, but then transition your eyes to the end of the runway. You do not want them looking a few stripes ahead of the airplane; there is no good reference. If there eyes are focused down the centerline towards the end of the runway, they will see a good sight picture. Also, look at pitch attitudes. When I taught landings to presolo students in a Citabria, we focused on the Taxi sight picture. This was the sight picture for a 3-point landing. But they could only see that looking far ahead of the airplane and not right in front of it.
 
My $0.02:

I like this post--it is very helpful to share these ideas of what worked for you. I ask this question occasionally on the forum even though I've signed off many, many students since 2005. My opinion is that while we can categorize learning patterns and try different cookie-cutter techniques, each student is in fact unique when they learn to land an airplane. Keep a well-stocked arsenal of ideas for trying with your students because your first, second--or even tenth idea might not work for that particular person. Be patient with the seemingly difficult ones; chances are, once they 'get it' they will be just fine thereafter. Be wary of the ones who pick it up too quickly: I had a guy who did great, no problems picking up anything, went through stage checks, soloed quickly, and on our first dual x/c nearly wheelbarrowed us off the runway in a very light crosswind!

In short, I think if a person has the motivation to show up at the flight school often and the intelligence to get there on their own, then they can eventually become a private pilot. I know someone who took over 250 hrs to get the private, and now has since earned (much faster!) and instrument rating and commercial. We all have learning plateaus, peaks, and valleys at different times and rates.

-A.S>
 
I should also add some ideas I use:

- split up the landing functions clearly until one skill is mastered; then recombine (for example, you control the rudders while he does yoke only)
- you control the power and have them only fly in ground effect (as mentioned above) and keep the top of nose that same distance "the height of a person" off the runway
- should feel like an EZ Boy recliner in the flare (assume C172)
- use Martha's video:
- try different reference points on the ground: the trees at the runway end usually works; look closer to the airplane only as you get slower since overcontrolling is a tendency if you look off the nose when the plane is too fast
- make a game to have them "keep the airplane flying without climbing" as long as possible, as you reduce the power
- do no-flap landings as this forces a nose high attitude
- do power-off landings from the downwind, abeam the touchdown point (forces focus on pitch/yoke and I have found very frequently solves the flare issues)

-A.S>
 
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