TCAS RA question

NovemberEcho

NovemberEcho

Dergs favorite member
ok, I know that many companies/airlines require you to comply with a TCAS RA no matter what. Buuuuttt, you're at 6000. VFR guy (squawking and talking) is level at 5500. You both report each other in sight. You get a TCAS RA on that guy and climb to 6800 when there's IFR traffic at 7000?!! Da fuq?!? (And 7000 ft traffic had been issued previously)
 
NovemberEcho said:
ok, I know that many companies/airlines require you to comply with a TCAS RA no matter what. Buuuuttt, you're at 6000. VFR guy (squawking and talking) is level at 5500. You both report each other in sight. You get a TCAS RA on that guy and climb to 6800 when there's IFR traffic at 7000?!! Da fuq?!? (And 7000 ft traffic had been issued previously)
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The problem most of the time, is that a target that is only "500 below" shows up as 400 below. I had this happen to me last month getting vectored for 11, a skychicken was at 2600' while we were getting vectors at 3k. If the thing doesn't see any conflicts above, it'll tell you to climb until the first target resolves, and if the second target appears as a threat, it'll advise or provide another resolution

I wish it worked a little better, but it do what it do
 
bimmerphile said:
The problem most of the time, is that a target that is only "500 below" shows up as 400 below. I had this happen to me last month getting vectored for 11, a skychicken was at 2600' while we were getting vectors at 3k. If the thing doesn't see any conflicts above, it'll tell you to climb until the first target resolves, and if the second target appears as a threat, it'll advise or provide another resolution

I wish it worked a little better, but it do what it do
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I understand if you don't have the other traffic in sight, but when you both have eachotjer in sight, you're both talking to the same controller, I just don't understand it. I watched two targets merge tonight because of a collision avoidance system.
 
NovemberEcho said:
I understand if you don't have the other traffic in sight, but when you both have eachotjer in sight, you're both talking to the same controller, I just don't understand it. I watched two targets merge tonight because of a collision avoidance system.
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Yeah, I can't really justify that. If you know the system will report clear of conflict if you scooch up a hundred feet, and you have the target in sight, you probably dont need to do a 5g pull and climb

Being the guy that has set off his fair share of RAs in the survey business, I understand the frustration
 
bimmerphile said:
Yeah, I can't really justify that. If you know the system will report clear of conflict if you scooch up a hundred feet, and you have the target in sight, you probably dont need to do a 5g pull and climb

Being the guy that has set off his fair share of RAs in the survey business, I understand the frustration
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This is why I need to take a FAM. I have no idea what y'all see on your TCAS or the parameters it uses. Is it's altitude readout showing the same altitude im seeing? Is it slaved to your transponder? I swear 2014 and earlier you could run IFR 500' over VFR and nary a peep was said, and starting in late '14+ it's a guaranteed RA. Hell I had a guy get a TCAS alert (not RA) for a VFR 1500' below him the other day.
 
@NovemberEcho

My manual states that I must respond immediately to any TCAS RA, even if I have the traffic in sight and I am talking to the same controller.

It goes on to caution that the traffic we see and the traffic you call for us might not be the traffic causing the RA.

I've seen plenty of times where ATC has called VFR traffic either 500 above or below and my TCAS display showed them at 400 to 500 ft of vertical separation and all it takes if is for the TCAS system to detect that minute change between 500 to 400 and perceive that as a collision threat and trigger a RA.

The TCAS II Advisory Circular has some good information, if a bit technical.


I know it is frustrating to sit there and watch targets merge, but hopefully, with the interrogation of the transponder from the IFR traffic at 7000, the TCAS system did it's job and issued an additional corrective RA to avoid that traffic as well.
 
NovemberEcho said:
This is why I need to take a FAM. I have no idea what y'all see on your TCAS or the parameters it uses. Is it's altitude readout showing the same altitude im seeing? Is it slaved to your transponder? I swear 2014 and earlier you could run IFR 500' over VFR and nary a peep was said, and starting in late '14+ it's a guaranteed RA. Hell I had a guy get a TCAS alert (not RA) for a VFR 1500' below him the other day.
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I'll email my base chief this week, maybe we can get you on a Dash before it gets too miserably hot

like @ctab5060X said, we have to respond. If the resolution is to climb, our VSI gives us a green arc above 0fpm to resolve the conflict, and a red arc below
 
ctab5060X said:
@NovemberEcho

My manual states that I must respond immediately to any TCAS RA, even if I have the traffic in sight and I am talking to the same controller.

It goes on to caution that the traffic we see and the traffic you call for us might not be the traffic causing the RA.

I've seen plenty of times where ATC has called VFR traffic either 500 above or below and my TCAS display showed them at 400 to 500 ft of vertical separation and all it takes if is for the TCAS system to detect that minute change between 500 to 400 and perceive that as a collision threat and trigger a RA.

The TCAS II Advisory Circular has some good information, if a bit technical.


I know it is frustrating to sit there and watch targets merge, but hopefully, with the interrogation of the transponder from the IFR traffic at 7000, the TCAS system did it's job and issued an additional corrective RA to avoid that traffic as well.
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it wasn't me, but one busy day someone at 5000 took an RA climb for 4500' traffic, set off an RA climb on the guy at 6000, who set off an RA climb to the guy at 7000, who climbed in front of an overflight at 8000.
 
bimmerphile said:
I'll email my base chief this week, maybe we can get you on a Dash before it gets too miserably hot

like @ctab5060X said, we have to respond. If the resolution is to climb, our VSI gives us a green arc above 0fpm to resolve the conflict, and a red arc below
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That would be awesome. But if I have to shave my beard it's not happening lol
 
What he said. Our FOM is very clear on this. Regardless of having any traffic in sight, an RA WILL BE complied with. We've had some close calls where the crew got an RA and failed to respond because they "Had the traffic in sight." Turns out they were looking at the wrong traffic.

In this scenario, a loss of separation can occur, FOQA will rat out everyone, and an ASAP may not prevent FAA certificate action because it's a willful violation of company policy.

Sorry man, but I'm following the RA guidance. It's the one sure way I will not get violated by the FAA by speaking the magic words:

"XX1234 complying with TCAS RA," and "Clear of Conflict, returning to FLXX0, (or altitude.)
 
NovemberEcho said:
This is why I need to take a FAM. I have no idea what y'all see on your TCAS or the parameters it uses. Is it's altitude readout showing the same altitude im seeing? Is it slaved to your transponder? I swear 2014 and earlier you could run IFR 500' over VFR and nary a peep was said, and starting in late '14+ it's a guaranteed RA. Hell I had a guy get a TCAS alert (not RA) for a VFR 1500' below him the other day.
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Was the guy descending, or the vfr climbing? 1500' and both level should not generate an alert or RA.
 
Cptnchia said:
What he said. Our FOM is very clear on this. Regardless of having any traffic in sight, an RA WILL BE complied with. We've had some close calls where the crew got an RA and failed to respond because they "Had the traffic in sight." Turns out they were looking at the wrong traffic.

In this scenario, a loss of separation can occur, FOQA will rat out everyone, and an ASAP may not prevent FAA certificate action because it's a willful violation of company policy.

Sorry man, but I'm following the RA guidance. It's the one sure way I will not get violated by the FAA by speaking the magic words:

"XX1234 complying with TCAS RA," and "Clear of Conflict, returning to FLXX0, (or altitude.)
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Does that even apply to, say, a visual approach with pairing traffic?

SFO would have like 300 go arounds a day...

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
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