Taxi Instructions

[fholbert]

I would agree with this, looks like the GA ramp is ALL movement area, not zero movement area, so call ground before you pull out of parking.

The GA ramp may be movement area. If so the fuel trucks are calling Ground Control to fuel aircraft. Maybe pilots who've used Atlantic at Austin can clear this up. When walking from Atlantic to your aircraft parked on the ramp is a clearance from Austin Ground required?

 

[Stinger]

I found this test question. It came from the:
AUSTIN STRAUBEL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT
NON-MOVEMENT AREA DRIVING TEST

View attachment 42021

Answer is b.
And Austin Straubel is the airport in Green Bay, WI.

DFW had a taxiway double marked so it could be used as a GA runway in the 70's

OKC and CSM both still have dual purpose runway/taxiways.

 

[inigo88]

View attachment 42021

Non-movement area boundaries are directional. The solid line is on the non-movement area side, basically reminding you "hey do you have your taxi clearance before you enter the movement area?" And the dashed line is on the side exiting the movement area, just like runway hold short markings.

My argument was if you cross that boundary from the terminal onto those taxiways you are now in a movement area PERIOD. The taxiway doesn't become a non-movement area unless you pass another set of those lines.

Now we can all say that therefore because there's no movement area boundary into Atlantic that it must be a movement area, but that's also BS. The truth is many airports just have poor compliance with movement area boundary markings on GA ramps. They get the airline terminal taken care of, and then never get around to the rest of it.

Examples:

Mojave (KMHV):

Oakland Int'l (KOAK):

There's no way either of those ramps are movement areas. Just use common sense.

 

[gotWXdagain]

The airport used to be Bergstrom AFB, and as the military doesn’t differentiate between movement and non-movement areas and thus doesn’t have a need to paint the boundary marker, I’m guessing nobody actually bothered to paint movement area lines off the GA ramp.


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[NovemberEcho]

Soooo going to sound like a total newb, but what is a movement/nonmovement area?

 

[Cptnchia]

Soooo going to sound like a total newb, but what is a movement/nonmovement area?

You’ve never been in a tower cab? Worked TWR/GRD?

The movement area is the surface of the airport where aircraft are under the positive control of ATC.

The non-movement area is the surface of the airport where aircraft are under no positive ATC control or under control of a non ATC entity, is ramp control.

 

[NovemberEcho]

You’ve never been in a tower cab? Worked TWR/GRD?

The movement area is the surface of the airport where aircraft are under the positive control of ATC.

The non-movement area is the surface of the airport where aircraft are under no positive ATC control or under control of a non ATC entity, is ramp control.

Approach my entire career for AF and FAA.

 

[fholbert]

Movement area controlled. Non-movement uncontrolled.

 

[GolfChuck]

Upon further examination of google earth, the markings across the perimeter road are equivalent to movement area markings. its just a dashed line though, not a solid and dashed line. that is where your movement are starts. I'd still call ground before I start to move.

 

[fholbert]

Upon further examination of google earth, the markings across the perimeter road are equivalent to movement area markings. its just a dashed line though, not a solid and dashed line. that is where your movement are starts. I'd still call ground before I start to move.

And they are not yellow.

 

[killbilly]

GA flying at AUS is pretty simple. I only flew out of Atlantic.

1) preflight airplane.
2) start airplane and call clearance delivery
3) taxi to "spot 2" and call Ground. Spot 2 is a box painted on the ga ramp side before the taxiway.
4) get ground taxi instructions
5) go fly

I used to fly there a lot, mostly very late nights - after midnight and into the wee hours of the morning. Still has been one of my favorite places to fly.

 

[Stinger]

Soooo going to sound like a total newb, but what is a movement/nonmovement area?

Movement areas are the taxiways and runways (need to be talking to ATC.)
Nonmovement areas are ramps (no need to talk to ATC)

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Guy in MKE cleated us from the gate, across 2 different runways, to the active. Thought they were only supposed to clear you across one runway at a time. Didn’t argue with him. Just did it.

It's my understanding that at some airports with closely spaced parallels, controllers can clear you across those two runways in one instruction. They still have to say the name of both runways. If you get that instruction in any other situation, however, I would stop before the second runway and get Ground to say the clearance again for the tape. This could be a gotcha. Another potential gotcha is closed runways. You still need the clearance to cross 'em.

 

[NovemberEcho]

You’ve never been in a tower cab? Worked TWR/GRD?

The movement area is the surface of the airport where aircraft are under the positive control of ATC.

The non-movement area is the surface of the airport where aircraft are under no positive ATC control or under control of a non ATC entity, is ramp control.

Which one is the tarmac?

 

[Cptnchia]

Which one is the tarmac?

The one that will get you a beat down for using that word, but that’s not important right now.

 

[gotWXdagain]

Soooo going to sound like a total newb, but what is a movement/nonmovement area?

Movement areas are the taxiways and runways (need to be talking to ATC.)
Nonmovement areas are ramps (no need to talk to ATC)

That’s the military way. The civilian way separates movement from non-movement areas with a single solid/single dash line pair, with the dashed line on the movement area side.


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[Stinger]

That’s the military way. The civilian way separates movement from non-movement areas with a single solid/single dash line pair, with the dashed line on the movement area side.


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So, ummmm, that sounds like a terrible way to explain movement/nonmovement to someone that doesn't know about airport markings.
Doesn't get any simpler than taxiways/runways vs ramps.

 

[gotWXdagain]

That’s the military way. The civilian way separates movement from non-movement areas with a single solid/single dash line pair, with the dashed line on the movement area side.


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So, ummmm, that sounds like a terrible way to explain movement/nonmovement to someone that doesn't know about airport markings.
Doesn't get any simpler than taxiways/runways vs ramps.

Until you find yourself taxiing on a movement area that you think is a ramp.


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[Stinger]

Until you find yourself taxiing on a movement area that you think is a ramp.


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Do you have an example of an airport that has a ramp designated as a movement area?
FAR 139.5 has a movement area definition:

Movement area means the runways, taxiways, and other areas of an airport that are used for taxiing, takeoff, and landing of aircraft, exclusive of loading ramps and aircraft parking areas.

 

[gotWXdagain]

Until you find yourself taxiing on a movement area that you think is a ramp.


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Do you have an example of an airport that has a ramp designated as a movement area?
FAR 139.5 has a movement area definition:

Movement area means the runways, taxiways, and other areas of an airport that are used for taxiing, takeoff, and landing of aircraft, exclusive of loading ramps and aircraft parking areas.

How about the pavement coming off Atlantic at KLAS? Or KBIS? Or KABQ? There’s plenty of places where the ramp and a taxiway share the same piece of pavement and are only differentiated by the line.


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