Take-offs under the hood
- Thread starter CAP_Flyer
- Start date
tgrayson
New Member
It's not unusual at all. However, I don't teach 0/0 takeoffs because 1) I think it's an unwise maneuver to perform in real life; and 2) it's not required training for an instrument student.
Nor do I teach stalls, because 1) you've already had oodles of stall recovery training, and 2) that's not part of the training I'm supposed to provide an instrument student and I'd rather spend the time on more pertinent tasks.
Let me just re-iterate my previous post. close to 0/0 to me means 300feet in fog on an early morning depature from OXR to climb on top of a marine layer that is only 600-1000 feet thick and VFR alternates are as close as either KCMA or KVNY. I would never do this for fun when it was solid IMC for thousands of feet up. I would consider this niether carless nor reckless. Would you?
Edit: It is also understood (or at least should be with the members of this board) that a return to the airport would be out of the question.
If it was really that "close to 0/0", it wasn't a non-event. We did a 700 RVR takeoff (pt 91) a few months ago and it was a pretty big deal. (In a half-glass airplane, no HUD, no EVS, bla bla bla)
You're joking, right? What do you do if the LOC fails when you're on the ILS? How often do you think about it happening?What happens if the LOC fails during takeoff? Heading bug won't (shouldn't) fail.
That's more something that I was thinking.
There's a reason op specs for air carriers require TDZ Lights, RCL Lights and/or RCLM for lower than standard takeoff minimums. While not "required" for Part 91, you're really going to wish you had them if you don't.
Considering...
...yes.
...and 0/0 does not mean 300'.
-mini
Chief Captain
Well-Known Member
I did the 0/0 takeoff for my private, but not the instrument. It's just one of those nice-to-do things IMHO, because I don't have any business flying a 172 if I'm still logging actual on the ground.
CAP_Flyer
Well-Known Member
Nihon_Ni
Well-Known Member
I also did these when I was an instrument student. My CFI had a pretty good procedure and we did them pretty often in the closing stage of instrument training. For me, the maneuver had value.
Shortly after I got my IFR ticket, I found myself rolling down the runway one day launching on an IFR clearance. The weather was about 1500 OVC, with about 3-4 miles in HZ. I didn't think too much of it until I rotated the nosewheel off the runway and immediate lost all visual references because I couldn't see the horizon through the haze and I lost contact with the grond when I raised the nose. It turned out to be the exact scenario I practiced in hooded takeoffs. The unexpected transition from visual to instrument was a non-event because I had practiced hooded takeoffs so often.
Crockrocket94
Well-Known Member
I just feel its a bad idea.
"We have 100 RVR... I can take off, I did it under the foggles once!!!!!!!"
I just feel thats teaching poor judgement. If the RVR is that low or "0"... wow.
Why do you think 135 guys have these RVR mins? Because they are weak?
Its a safety buffer. Screw legality here, its more about safety.
"We have 100 RVR... I can take off, I did it under the foggles once!!!!!!!"
I just feel thats teaching poor judgement. If the RVR is that low or "0"... wow.
Why do you think 135 guys have these RVR mins? Because they are weak?
Its a safety buffer. Screw legality here, its more about safety.
Then woulden't any takeoff under IFR, say 400' CIG be reckless? Unless the airport has a precision appraoch, your not going to be able to return.
Crockrocket94
Well-Known Member
Well,
Unless an airport in the vicinity has precision approaches or better weather, yes, it might not be the wisest thing to do if you cannot return. I mean, 91 operators can do it, but I don't know of very many people who have. (<500rvr)
But hey, what do I know. Go ahead....
Unless an airport in the vicinity has precision approaches or better weather, yes, it might not be the wisest thing to do if you cannot return. I mean, 91 operators can do it, but I don't know of very many people who have. (<500rvr)
But hey, what do I know. Go ahead....
subpilot
Squawking 7600
Single or Multi? That is a big factor!
richarms
Well-Known Member
We used this quite often flying out of central CA coast. Fog blanketed runway but was only 50 to 150 foot to top. Other airports in area were away from the coast and clear. Rather than wait hours, we just used a tower-tower clearance. Popped right out VMC.
:yeahthat:
When I first read this post with only one reply up I was typing out how ridiculous this was but took it back to avoid flaming. However, it seems more and more talk of teaching this like it would actually or should actually ever be an option. Why teach something you would never want your student to do?
Me personally, if my student told me they were doing 0/0 takeoffs I would give them one warning. If they did it again I would red marker void every bit of instrument training I gave them. I would of course rewrite them in the back with a stipulation giving them my minimums for departure which would be at the least 135 minimums. Finally I would start a paper trail by writing a letter to the FAA regarding the situation.
I am sorry this kind of cowboy flying is just ludicrous and completely unnecessary. Maybe their life doesn't matter to them but my ticket matters to me.
If this is true then my guess is I am probably glad you weren't my student.
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
Because WHEN they do it, because its legal, and "it can't be that bad" and auger it in, do you want the feds coming after you, or do you want to prepare them for the stresses of it so they won't auger it in and there is no problem for the federales? And if they freak over it with you in the airplane, maybe you just prevented them from doing it.
My training covered SO much stuff that is not in the PTS and did so many extra, and more "advanced" stuff that when I've had a couple issues, it was a non-event, rather than without the training, I might not be here right now.
I can think of a few different things that a student can learn by doing 0/0 take-offs under the hood. I'll bet most of you can come up with a pretty good list of skills that can be picked up this way, yes?
I've never heard of an instructor teaching 0/0 take-offs for the purpose of the pilot-to-be actually performing them in the future. As I recall part of the lesson that was taught to me when I did them is how hairy it could be to do something like for real. It seems a little silly to get worked up over that thought, but that's just me.
BTW, I get to do 600 RVR take-offs every six months in the sim. That's plenty low enough visibility for me to consider doing in real life, thank you very much.
I've never heard of an instructor teaching 0/0 take-offs for the purpose of the pilot-to-be actually performing them in the future. As I recall part of the lesson that was taught to me when I did them is how hairy it could be to do something like for real. It seems a little silly to get worked up over that thought, but that's just me.
BTW, I get to do 600 RVR take-offs every six months in the sim. That's plenty low enough visibility for me to consider doing in real life, thank you very much.
Do you have any time outside of Flight Instructing?
I've done a number of 0/0 takeoffs when operational needs have dictated. I'd had to go with the full knowledge that if there was an emergency, I wasn't coming back to this field; and if the WX held as it was, I also wasn't returning to the departure field. Point being, if there's no real need to perform them, then don't. Training in a 0/0 takeoff situation in a controlled (instructing) environment does teach a number of things.