Take-offs under the hood

CAP_Flyer

CAP_Flyer

Well-Known Member
I had my first Instrument lesson last week and after telling a flying buddy about it, it sparked some debate.

My lesson took place last week at night. I flew out to the airport to pick up my instructor, and he briefed me about what we were going to do. The basic turns, climbs, descents under the hood were on the agenda for my first lesson as well as going up and doing a couple of stalls under the hood. I thought the stalls under the hood was an unusual thing to do, but knowing that the plane flies the same whether I'm under the hood or not and having an instructor in the right seat, I was game for it.

We get down to the end of the runway and into position for take-off, and he has me put on the hood. This he didn't brief me on, and it stretched my comfort zone a little bit. I guess he wanted to show me a 0/0 take-off and assured me that he wouldn't let me kill us on the runway. The DG was set to the runway heading, so I was comfortable with the concept that as long as I kept the runway heading, rotated at the correct airspeed, and watched my AI like a normal scan, it's just a normal take-off. Coupled with the fact that I had my CFII sitting next to me ready to keep me from rolling off the side of the runway, I made the decision to go with the flow and tackle this challenge. It went just like a normal take-off, and I was under the hood for my entire lesson until I was at decision altitude on final.

I felt really good about the lesson and definitely felt like I had learned some things. I never felt out of control or further out of my comfort zone than I would be trying something new. When I told my flying buddy about my lesson, his jaw dropped when I told him about a simulated 0/0 take-off at night under the hood as my first Instrument lesson. My personal feeling is that it wasn't a big deal as I had analyzed the situation and made a decision as a pilot and was comfortable doing this with an instructor that I have flown with before and trust.

I'd like to hear some feedback from some other instructors here as far as is this kind of thing something you would do with your students.
 
It's in our instrument syllabus to do a zero/zero takeoff.
 
Good for your CFI. You are perfectly legal to takeoff in 0/0 as a part 91 pilot. I have done close to 0/0 take offs and it's really a non-event. Just know that your kinda screwed if you have an equipment failure because you will not be able to return to land. So you better have an alternative course of action, like another airport close by thats VFR. Tell your flying bud to sack it up.
 
CAP_Flyer said:
I had my first Instrument lesson last week and after telling a flying buddy about it, it sparked some debate.
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I am not going to comment on the 0/0 takeoff as I am not a II yet so it isn't my place, however, the fact that this was all on your first lesson I think is absurd. I can't imagine how you learned anything have a full instrument takeoff to DA on approach the first flight. I think your CFI could ease off the gas pedal a little, you have likely 30-40 more hours with him till your ride, no need to teach it all in one day.
 
I rather see you have a loc in there instead of just flying a heading bug but it should be a non-event. As far as whether it's appropriate or not on the first lesson that is obviously up to you the student and the instructor. No problem pushing a student from day one as long as they can handle it. No need to be slowski if the student can handle it.
 
I think it may have been a little odd or unconventional to do as much as you did on the first lesson, but not the extent of "OMG - what was this instructor thinking??? He's a madman!!!".

As long as you learned something, and had fun, then that's what counts.

I'd probably go thru a zero/zero takeoff on the 3rd or 4th lesson but that's just me.
 
The more the better. Theres no reason to pussyfoot around with training. The more you can do now the better off you'll be when it comes time for the checkride and real world instrument flying.
Before its all over you should do an approach to landing with a hood.
 
BajtheJino said:
Before its all over you should do an approach to landing with a hood.
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That was the freakiest thing I ever did. But its nice to know that if the options are run out of gas in 5 minutes or shoot an ILS with some ridiculously low RVR that there's a chance that I won't make a crater on the numbers.
 
rd757 said:
Unless you only have a LOC at one end... ;)

RD
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It still works....

Dazzler said:
What happens if the LOC fails during takeoff? Heading bug won't (shouldn't) fail.
;)
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I would argue that the loc won't (shouldn't) fail.

Not saying depend on it but after going through several flavors of ultra low min takeoff training I wouldn't attempt it without a working loc and center line lights.
 
Y'know...I honestly hadn't thought of using the LOC to keep me on the centerline. I'll have to give that a try the next time he wants me to take off under the hood.

But I WAS thinking about following a heading bug and thought about how a LOC would be better to follow. If I'm taking of on Rwy 09 and taking off on a heading of 090. What if the runway orientation is 094? I can see how it would make more sense to do a 0/0 take-off on the localizer rather than a heading bug...unless you set the heading bug to the actual runway orientation which would be in the AFD, right?

Glad to hear the supporting comments from everyone, the discussion with my flying buddy had me second-guessing a little bit. :)
 
CAP_Flyer said:
If I'm taking of on Rwy 09 and taking off on a heading of 090. What if the runway orientation is 094?
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You would use 094-not 090.
Your approach plate for that runway should show you the true heading for said runway.
Plus if your taking off 0/0, even for training you should have the approach with the lowest min's set up and ready to go.
 
The thing with the heading bug deal. Suppose you aren't super pilot and you don't have the bug perfectly centered. What is your correction guidance if you stray to either side?
 
mikecweb said:
The thing with the heading bug deal. Suppose you aren't super pilot and you don't have the bug perfectly centered. What is your correction guidance if you stray to either side?
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The sound of wheels hitting lights. Or the guy in the right seat screaming.

I'm trying to remember the math, but I think it takes something like 3 degrees error to get you off the side of a 150 foot wide runway in 1500 feet. What's the take-off roll in a piston single?
 
3.0 degrees of error will get you 1433 feet of ground roll before your nose gear is on the paint 75 feet from the center line. 2 degrees will get you 2149 feet, and 4 degrees will get you 1075 feet. Depending on winds, weight, and density altitude, 1500 feet is in the ballpark for a 172

So Steve you remembered quite well.

SIN(error) = (half of runway width) / (ground roll)
 
mshunter said:
Good for your CFI. You are perfectly legal to takeoff in 0/0 as a part 91 pilot. I have done close to 0/0 take offs and it's really a non-event. Just know that your kinda screwed if you have an equipment failure because you will not be able to return to land. So you better have an alternative course of action, like another airport close by thats VFR. Tell your flying bud to sack it up.
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Kindly remember the difference between legality and reality.

I coach my students against careless moves.

It's an understatement to say "you're kinda screwed if you have an equipment failure..." Not only are such actions questionably careless and reckless, but they're potentially fatal. In my professional opinion, it's irresponsible to facilitate 'pushing the limit' to instrument students since such moves are not explicitly prohibited by Federal regulations.
 
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