Tailwheel flying

ZeroPapaGolf

ZeroPapaGolf

Well-Known Member
I taxied, flew, spun, and landed a Super Decathlon. First time in a tailwheel airplane, and didn't even lose control on the ground!

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Congrats! Tailwheel flying is fun. Now I'm sure I'll stir up a big storm saying this but I'm personally dead set on this advice. Until you have about 1000 hours of tailwheel time, avoid wheel landings at all costs. Three point landings will keep you out of trouble, you can do them in any airplane, and they work great for crosswinds too. Have fun!
 
It was so sweet. I have to say I have never been more focused while flying than operating that thing on the ground. I bet I wasn't half an inch off the taxiway line all the way out to the runway and back, I was so paranoid about letting it get away from me and the instructor having to save it. Apparently that was an effective technique, though. It was also eye-opening to fly something that requires active rudder use to stay coordinated in flight...it really shows how dead our feet become in modern airplanes!

Now I want need a Super Cub.
 
That's REALLY good technique. I was taught to never do anything during taxi in a taildragger other than taxiing. Checklists, radio calls, etc can wait. Super cubs are epic, keep with it!
 
Dan208B said:
Now I'm sure I'll stir up a big storm saying this but I'm personally dead set on this advice. Until you have about 1000 hours of tailwheel time, avoid wheel landings at all costs. Three point landings will keep you out of trouble, you can do them in any airplane, and they work great for crosswinds too.
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Ehhh...it depends. Different airplanes with various landing gear designs, rudder effectiveness, forward visibility, center of gravity, and many other factors affect the wheel landing versus three point landing debate.

I'm dead set on this advice: Don't be dead set on any advice.
 
Dan208B said:
Congrats! Tailwheel flying is fun. Now I'm sure I'll stir up a big storm saying this but I'm personally dead set on this advice. Until you have about 1000 hours of tailwheel time, avoid wheel landings at all costs. Three point landings will keep you out of trouble, you can do them in any airplane, and they work great for crosswinds too. Have fun!
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Three points can get you in as much trouble as wheel landings. In some taildraggers, three point landings are not the best way to go and wheel landings are the preferred method. Just sayin...


And not picking on you but we have moved away from taildraggers to nosedraggers for primary instruction, and now it seems that tailwheel instruction wants us to avoid wheel landings (one maneuver that takes some finesse). How much further are we going to "degrade" basic stick and rudder skills?
 
Houston said:
There are two kinds of tailwheel pilots. Those who have ground looped and those who will.
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Well, yes. In the same way there are two types of tricycle gear pilots--those who have crashed, and those who will. :rolleyes:

I've heard your saying before, and it's a complete falsehood. There is absolutely no reason why a tailwheel pilot can't fly their entire lifetime without ground looping. Every flight is an experience independent from every other flight. You're never "due" for a ground loop any more than a pilot is "due" for a crash. It's like anything else in flying...use appropriate risk management, don't get in over your head, stay current, and so on.
 
I have never seen, in person, a full stall (3-point) landing from any of the following:

Corsair
Mustang
DC-3

I believe that is the current list - but every one of those airplanes that I've witnessed landings from - none has been anything but a wheelie.

I guess I'm of a mind that I'd love to be proficient at all forms of aircraft control, including all forms of landing, even prior to having 1,000 hours in that category of machine. That's just me though. I am rather certain (as in "know for a fact") that the AAC in the 40's were taking kids from zero-Mustang/Thunderbolt/etc in between 200-300 hours - and that these guys all could wheel-land prior to getting out of the initial Stearman/Waco/Meyers primary trainers. So, wheel-landings exist for a reason - and should be learned for a reason.
 
I've wheel-landed a couple of Citabrias a fair amount of times, both while being instructed and while solo. I have just over 100 TT. I guess I just need 900 more hours to keep doing it. ;)
 
If you can't wheel land safely you shouldn't be flying a tailwheel. I use wheel landings all the time when the wind is gusting. Like Waco said you need to be able to use wheel landings as a tool when needed. If anyone tells you to wait till 1000 hours it's because wheel landings scare them not because it shouldn't be done. Last place I want to be in a strong crosswind is in a full stall 3 pt landing. Always wheel land with any significant crosswind. It gives you better control. Once the mains are down you can put the tail down to steer once slowed down enough that the rudder is no longer effective enough
 
I wasn't picking on the poster...and ultimately the only right way to land a taildragger is whatever way allows for the pilot to keep it on the runway - that's the best answer - but I just like having more than one tool in my tool-box. I would like for anyone flying an airplane I would own to have more than one tool in their box as well. I think wheelies give confidence and require a higher level of control. I do think full-stall landings are generally the way to go almost all of the time - just because it is the slowest and will use less runway. That said, I want a lot of options for wind, runway length, etc. I just don't like limiting myself.
 
Dan208B said:
Congrats! Tailwheel flying is fun. Now I'm sure I'll stir up a big storm saying this but I'm personally dead set on this advice. Until you have about 1000 hours of tailwheel time, avoid wheel landings at all costs. Three point landings will keep you out of trouble, you can do them in any airplane, and they work great for crosswinds too. Have fun!
Click to expand...

How many hours do you have in taildraggers?

Other than a minor difference in airspeed, a correct wheel landing isn't all that different from a full stall landing.

But also, by definition, any landing in a strong crosswind that is done properly will be on one wheel (not 3), and would be a "wheel landing."

There's a reason both techniques are taught, there are times both are appropriate.
 
You can't receive the tailwheel endorsement without demostrating profficiency in wheel landings,,,,,,,,,,
 
jrh said:
Well, yes. In the same way there are two types of tricycle gear pilots--those who have crashed, and those who will. :rolleyes:

I've heard your saying before, and it's a complete falsehood. There is absolutely no reason why a tailwheel pilot can't fly their entire lifetime without ground looping. Every flight is an experience independent from every other flight. You're never "due" for a ground loop any more than a pilot is "due" for a crash. It's like anything else in flying...use appropriate risk management, don't get in over your head, stay current, and so on.
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Oh no. It's not "my saying". It comes from a whole lot of tailwheel pilots with a whole lot of experience who are trying to make a point to people such as yourself. Some are wise enough to get the point and some aren't.
 
Houston said:
Oh no. It's not "my saying". It comes from a whole lot of tailwheel pilots with a whole lot of experience who are trying to make a point to people such as yourself. Some are wise enough to get the point and some aren't.
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Humility was probably the (lost) point.
 
Lots of reasons to groundloop. I did (kind of) when the leaf-spring that held the tailwheel attachment snapped on a Cessna 140 - it didn't actually groundloop...but I wasn't in full control either. My grandpa allowed me to purposely in a Chief when I was young and learning to fly because I had my head up my ass and he wanted to let me see what would happen - it was slow and there was lots of room, so he let it go. I learned. I had a friend groundloop his Waco CSO when the rudder-bar snapped in two on roll-out (although he calls it a "pirouette"). I think Chuck Yeager groundlooped a T-6 in the not to distant past. Groundloops can happen. They aren't inevitable, but sometimes they can't be avoided (like the leaf spring and the rudder-bar).
 
Hey, bob Hoover ground looped once.. In a stolen German fighter after escaping a POW camp... Claims he did it on purpose though.

I've seen ground loops, they aren't the biggest thing to fear, usually do more damage to the pilots ego than the aircraft.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
I've seen ground loops, they aren't the biggest thing to fear, usually do more damage to the pilots ego than the aircraft.
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You're correct. Like many things, it's a matter of "degree". The line between a "swerve", a "loss of directional control", and a "ground loop" is a matter of semantics. The "events" you've seen and the "events" I've demonstrated are exactly as you describe. They damage the pilot's ego and nothing else. They are a nagging reminder that none of us is perfect and the laws of physics cannot be denied. A reminder that the big aircraft damaging ground loop is out there waiting for the right set of circumstances.
 
The wheel landing issue reminds me of certain pilots who are also nervous to pick the tail up on the pitts during takeoff and do a 3 point takeoff instead and then only do 3 point landings in it also. I guess it is all just how comfortable you are with airplane.
 
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