Tailwheel Endorsement: I haz one.

[ASpilot2be]

Speaking of tailwheel Cessna's, do you have any experience with Cessna 152 Aerobats with the Texas Taildragger conversion?

The Texas Taildragger conversion is awesome if done properly. The one I have a couple hours in was a blast to fly, but didnt taxi correctly. On that plane the pilot had done it himself I think, but to turn one direction you barely had to touch the pedal to turn, and to turn the other direction it required full pedal and some brake.:crazy:

 

[CDNPilotDave]

I'm suspecting it was happy to turn left but right turns required the brake/rudder.

 

[Fly_Unity]

I ain't qualified to just go jump in any taildragger, and I can't even solo this plane without 100 hours in it,

100 hours before you can solo in it?

Wait till you go mountain flying in the cub! Its one way to get the flying bug back in you!

 

[ASpilot2be]

I'm suspecting it was happy to turn left but right turns required the brake/rudder.

I think so. Is it common?

 

[CDNPilotDave]

I'm guessing P-factor. During taxi, tail low, just like on departure need more right rudder to counteract left turning tendency ...

 

[jrh]

Speaking of tailwheel Cessna's, do you have any experience with Cessna 152 Aerobats with the Texas Taildragger conversion?

Not personally, but as ASpilot2be mentioned, I've heard mixed reviews.

The fact is, the plane was designed to be a tricycle. Whenever you modify a plane to do something it wasn't originally designed to do, it usually exhibits at least one or two odd qualities somewhere along the line.

But I know it's a popular conversion, so I'm sure a fair number of people like it.

My advice would be to do a couple test flights in one and see what you think for yourself before committing to buying it.

 

[TGatch]

They require 100 hours TW before you can solo in it? I was seriously considering getting mine as well, but that's a lot of time (money). Thanks for the write up sounds like you had a blast.

 

[jrh]

When looking at Cessna 140s stay away from the metalized ones; they are essentially single place airplanes.

I wouldn't say that at all. Mine is metalized and it's not bad.

Gross weight of 1450, empty weight of 930 on my bird. I believe the metalized wing added about 40 pounds over the factory spec of 890 pounds empty.

That's 520 pounds useful load--slightly better than a lot of C-150s even.

Put in a full tank of fuel (25 gal = 150 lbs.) and I can carry 370 pounds of people and bags for 4 hours until I run dry.

It's definitely no Citabria, but I carried myself (130 lbs) and a 230 pound friend on a 1,000 mile trip and we still had room for 40 pounds of gear in back.



It is what it is. Definitely not a beefy plane to roar around in for backcountry camping trips, but I wouldn't rule out a C-140 for any single characteristic alone. Look at each plane's individual weight and balance and decide for yourself if you can live with it.

 

[killbilly]

100 hours before you can solo in it?

Wait till you go mountain flying in the cub! Its one way to get the flying bug back in you!

The 100-hour minimum is the school's insurance minimum. Ken did tell me if he didn't have that requirement he wouldn't have had any problem with me soloing the airplane.

That was one of the things that made me accelerate the idea of owning a taildragger. In his plane, it would cost me about $15K to get up to his minimums just to rent his SuperCub. Why spend that to RENT his plane, when I could spend that to OWN a plane with a lot of equity, because a lot of owner policies only require 25-30 hours time in the plane. I could buy one, keep it at his field, fly it with him for a while and be WAY under that.

Until you actually fly one, you don't get a feel for the real challenge. And that is what's so much fun about flying tailwheel, at least to the newbie; it's challenging. You gotta constantly watch for deviations and correct, and then undo the correction. It's a full-time job. As Ken explained to me..."you fly a 172 down to the runway, right? But you fly a taildragger all the way to the tiedowns."

I also like the fact that you can convert a wheel landing to a 3-pointer, and vice-versa, depending on conditions at the time. You have options with a tailwheel that you don't have with a tricycle gear. Actually, my BEST landings were where he told me, "hold it off the deck - I want you to fly the plane a foot above the runway and not land it."

What he wanted me to do was land, but in tricking myself into "not landing" I was keeping it razor-straight down the runway (rudder two-step again) and compensating for the wind AND - most importantly - landing the plane when it was ready to land. I can see this as an effective technique for ANY student, actually. If they keep it straight and manage the energy properly, they're gonna give you a great landing every time. At least, that's how it was for me.

The only convert-the-landing scenarios for me were in a case where I did bounce. In those cases, depending on how high it was, it was simpler to just yank the stick back and let the plane settle down and work it with the feet. If it was a higher bounce, power up and go around. I only had that problem on pavement, though, and only (according to Ken) because of the beefy undercarriage and fat tires. Other than that, he said, my technique was just fine.

 

[WacoFan]

Speaking of tailwheel Cessna's, do you have any experience with Cessna 152 Aerobats with the Texas Taildragger conversion?

I have often wondered how these flew as compared with a C-120/140. I think the later models with the "omni-vision" rear windows look weird as a taildragger, but the older C-150's with the fastback and straighttail look good - almost like a miniature C-180.

That said, my Grandpa and I had kicked around the idea of buying an old omni-vision C-150 and doing the taildragger conversion to it. We would also create some kind of fairing for the tailfeathers to make it more rounded looking (like a small C-170 shape). Paint the creation Olive Drab and you would have had a miniature L-19. Ideally we would have wanted to somehow make the machine tandem seating - but we decided that would have been too much work.

 

[LoadMasterC141]

Congrats Bill! I have a little time in a Super Decathlon and a Swift, but didn't get to takeoff or land in either cases. Really want to do it.

 

[killbilly]

Congrats Bill! I have a little time in a Super Decathlon and a Swift, but didn't get to takeoff or land in either cases. Really want to do it.

Jeremy - if you get a chance, go down to JWY and look for Carol Walker. She does some teaching in her Citabria there - she's also a DPE. I'm sure you could get a little bit of good TW time with her if you wanted. And she's a very nice, very patient person.

 

[LoadMasterC141]

I spend alot of time at Midway actually. I talked to her a few times about the TW and Glider stuff....Problem is I am poor, and about get moreso.

 

[flyboywbl]

I'm super jealous! I wish our boss had not sold his Super Decathlon. I really want to get mine. I found a guy with a Harmon Rocket who said i could fly with him when ever I wanted. I'll have to take him up on that. I think he is a CFI so he could give me an endorsement.

Congrats!

 

[juskl]

Congrats on the TW endorsement.... You explained it perfectly and it sounds like you had some fantastic instruction and experiences. The supercub is by far my favorite airplane. I love it, teach in it and would some day like to have my own with a 180 hp engine and belly pod.

The c140 is a very nice plane. I was teaching a kid in one with an 85 HP engine and yes it was metal. In the heat of the summer in the Phoenix area it performed ok in climbs..... read about 300 fpm climb. But it was alot of fun to fly. Getting used to landing a tailwheel airplane seated side by side takes a bit to get used to, but you should be ok after one or two flights. Anyway, welcome to the club. And if you are in the Phoenix area, As long as you have 75 hours and get checked out by us, you can rent our Cubs. You just can't land on unimproved strips unless we are with you. (insurance).

And yep, the grass and dirt makes everyone look like a rockstar. Pavement is the equalizer, especially on larger tires... Congrats....

Justin Kelly
Chandler Air Service
Chandler, Arizona
480-963-6420

 

[Matt13C]

That is awesome, congrats!

I have been looking into getting mine also. There is a small grass strip near me that teaches in a J-3 and also have a Super Decathlon and a few open cockpit bi-planes. After reading this I want it even more. Sounds like a great time.

Cant wait to learn some old school stick and rudder skills!

 

[Minuteman]

Hey congrats!

So, uh, are those folks looking for any more customers?

 

[killbilly]

Hey congrats!

So, uh, are those folks looking for any more customers?

Yep.

 

[tlewis95]

Awesome!

They really are just so much fun.

 

[Blackhawk]

I wouldn't say that at all. Mine is metalized and it's not bad.

Gross weight of 1450, empty weight of 930 on my bird. I believe the metalized wing added about 40 pounds over the factory spec of 890 pounds empty.

That's 520 pounds useful load--slightly better than a lot of C-150s even.

Put in a full tank of fuel (25 gal = 150 lbs.) and I can carry 370 pounds of people and bags for 4 hours until I run dry.

It's definitely no Citabria, but I carried myself (130 lbs) and a 230 pound friend on a 1,000 mile trip and we still had room for 40 pounds of gear in back.



It is what it is. Definitely not a beefy plane to roar around in for backcountry camping trips, but I wouldn't rule out a C-140 for any single characteristic alone. Look at each plane's individual weight and balance and decide for yourself if you can live with it.

You're 130 lbs... not quite the average 190 lbs. male.
The one I fly has an empty weight of about 1000 lbs. (it does have a TC, landing light, larger engine), so looking at a useful load of 450 lbs. Two 180 lbs. people leaves 80 lbs for gas and gear. Pack light. Add to that the DAs around here in the summer (airfield elevation 4000', temperatures >30 degrees C), and the performance is not the best. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great airplane and it is what I use during the tail wheel transition when I take the student to dirt strips (don't want to ding my baby's composite prop). It also gives the pilots a different perspective from the 8KCAB.