Taildragger endorsement

jrh said:
I've got a fair amount of time in my C-140 and power doesn't have much to do with the ability to wheel land it. You fly gliders, you know you can make a plane do almost anything without power. It's all about energy management...
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Your post was awesome. I think I actually could go do a wheel landing now after reading your post and I have zero TW time. Someday...:cool:
 
jrh said:
I've got a fair amount of time in my C-140 and power doesn't have much to do with the ability to wheel land it. You fly gliders, you know you can make a plane do almost anything without power. It's all about energy management.
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Thanks for the advice, I will definitely be using it this week.

Good luck with the Pawnee next spring, hopefully I'll have some tips for you by then.
 
Murdoughnut said:
Are you doing it in CAMS 140? If so, I know the guy who owns it - he's one of the other owners of my 172. In fact, I think I saw the plane yesterday on a high final to 35R possibly.
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It is a gorgeous 140, I highly recommend going up in it. The retro 1950s controls are awesome. Especially since you work across the street. Scheduling it shouldn't ever be a problem, I asked, it has only been up about 20 hours since it has been on the line. It climbs like a dog, 300 fpm if you are lucky. You may well not make it up to pattern altitude on a hot day.

As for landing it, taking it in fast is a good strategy. The best landing I did was 100 MPH to the numbers, then float in ground effect bleeding off speed. Try to touch down around 65 MPH. You can't bring it in slow and be in the right attitude to touch down, the sink will be too high and it will bounce. Basically, land it the way you would land a glider :)

Taxiing is a bit weird too, the main gear is on a swivel for crosswinds.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
It is a gorgeous 140, I highly recommend going up in it. The retro 1950s controls are awesome. Especially since you work across the street. Scheduling it shouldn't ever be a problem, I asked, it has only been up about 20 hours since it has been on the line. It climbs like a dog, 300 fpm if you are lucky. You may well not make it up to pattern altitude on a hot day.

As for landing it, taking it in fast is a good strategy. The best landing I did was 100 MPH to the numbers, then float in ground effect bleeding off speed. Try to touch down around 65 MPH. You can't bring it in slow and be in the right attitude to touch down, the sink will be too high and it will bounce. Basically, land it the way you would land a glider :)

Taxiing is a bit weird too, the main gear is on a swivel for crosswinds.
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Yeah, all of the things you've mentioned are things I've heard Mike talk about. He's hoping to have the swivel gear switched out. He bought it as a leaseback investment - not sure if it's going to pan out like he thinks it will, but I'll have to take it up one day. Fortunately I can use our club instructor since he's signed off on the aircraft.
 
The first time you fly the Pawnee, be aware of the nose down sight picture (or whatever you guys call it) in level flight. After flying the 140, it will surprise you.

I love the sound of a 235 Pawnee.

Good luck with it and have fun.
 
t-cart said:
The first time you fly the Pawnee, be aware of the nose down sight picture (or whatever you guys call it) in level flight. After flying the 140, it will surprise you.
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Good advice there. The sight picture of most ag planes in level flight is a nice little 'gotcha' if you aren't prepared for it.

You will think you are in a slight dive the first couple of times, but once you get used to it, you really appreciate the excellent forward visibilty.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Just got an email, starting my pawnee checkout Saturday morning. Sweet!
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The Achilles heal of the Pawnee is that at the end of the day, you are your own CFI. Just fly the numbers they tell you to fly and use the wingtips to determine your pitch attitude instead of the nose.

And not to scare you or anything but whatever you do, do not ever allow the plane to go up on its nose. I realize putting the plane on its nose is not something you were planning on doing. But my point is that in most old rag wing taildraggers, if things go wrong and the plane ends up on its nose or on its back, you scoot yourself out of it, dust yourself off and pray that the boss doesn't fire you. But do that in a Pawnee and most of the time you're going to the burn center at best and the morgue at worst. Be very very very careful until you build up several hundred hours of tailwheel time.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
And not to scare you or anything but whatever you do, do not ever allow the plane to go up on its nose.
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Thanks. I am now officially scared.

I just looked over the last 30 years of fatal NTSB accident reports for PA-25's. I didn't see many landing fatalities. Lot's of "spraying while intoxicated" accidents (don't crop dust drunk). And power lines & trees. Fortunately, very few glider towing deaths.
 
One thing for sure. In a tailwheel airplane you will become VERY aware of the wind, especially when it is a crosswing. 25kts xwind in the jet.. no big deal. 25kts in the Swift and I will stay on the ground thank you.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Thanks. I am now officially scared.

I just looked over the last 30 years of fatal NTSB accident reports for PA-25's. I didn't see many landing fatalities. Lot's of "spraying while intoxicated" accidents (don't crop dust drunk). And power lines & trees. Fortunately, very few glider towing deaths.
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It's not necessarily just landing accidents. Losing an engine and landing out in rough terrain could do it to. It has to do with the fact that the fiberglass fuel tank is right behind the firewall and the muffler is right in front of the firewall. Run the nose into something (such as the ground in the flip over event) and you'll push the engine/firewall into the fuel tank which will rupture it and allow its liquid gold contents to spill out all over the pilots legs and that piping hot muffler that is now poking through the previously mentioned firewall. The rest sort of takes care of itself at that point.

I logged all my pawnee time pulling banners when I was younger and much more desperate for hours. I had the opportunity to get back into a pawnee last year and tow some gliders with it. I wouldn't have made much money but it would have offset my soaring costs. But I took a pass on the job because at this point in my life I don't need the hours and the risk having an engine out/bad off airport landing turn me into a human torch just wasn't worth it for me. Again, not trying to scare you. I just wanted you to know what the risks are with that particular aircraft. Like I said before, its a really a pretty tame taildragger with no bad habits once you get the sight picture down. But like any taildragger, don't ever get lazy with it or turn your back on it because they like to burn if you flip them.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
The Achilles heal of the Pawnee is that at the end of the day, you are your own CFI. Just fly the numbers they tell you to fly and use the wingtips to determine your pitch attitude instead of the nose.

And not to scare you or anything but whatever you do, do not ever allow the plane to go up on its nose. I realize putting the plane on its nose is not something you were planning on doing. But my point is that in most old rag wing taildraggers, if things go wrong and the plane ends up on its nose or on its back, you scoot yourself out of it, dust yourself off and pray that the boss doesn't fire you. But do that in a Pawnee and most of the time you're going to the burn center at best and the morgue at worst. Be very very very careful until you build up several hundred hours of tailwheel time.
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Really? I have seen 3 Pawnee prop strikes (standing VERY close too one that was parking) and none of them burned. Just made an expensive nose, and bounced back onto the tail.

Have fun with the checkout! Let me know how it goes.
 
As Joe Gremlin said, they do have that reputation. The D model not so much because the gas is in the wings.
 
tlewis95 said:
Really? I have seen 3 Pawnee prop strikes (standing VERY close too one that was parking) and none of them burned. Just made an expensive nose, and bounced back onto the tail.
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Did I mention a prop strike? I said it happens when the nose impacts something and pushes the firewall back into the gas tank. A prop strike wouldn't do that. Catching a main gear in a chuck hole and rolling the plane hard up on its nose would. And does. The plane I logged all my pawnee time in is no longer with us. And the pilot who was flying it at the time ended up with 3rd degree burns over most of his body and is lucky to be alive. Pawnees are a lot of fun to fly. But they will hurt you in accidents that other airplanes would let you walk away from.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
Did I mention a prop strike? I said it happens when the nose impacts something and pushes the firewall back into the gas tank. A prop strike wouldn't do that. Catching a main gear in a chuck hole and rolling the plane hard up on its nose would. And does. The plane I logged all my pawnee time in is no longer with us. And the pilot who was flying it at the time ended up with 3rd degree burns over most of his body and is lucky to be alive. Pawnees are a lot of fun to fly. But they will hurt you in accidents that other airplanes would let you walk away from.
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Ahh, right. I don't know why I wasnt considering a "crash" like scenerio, I could see how that could be a problem.
 
Now I'm scared to go fly the pawnee again lol I'm thinking about buying a flame retardent flight suite.. I may get laughed at by burning alive in my biggest fear!
 
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