drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Starting mine today. Should be fun, I can't wait. If someone posts some video of a groundlooping Cessna 140 at KPIE today, you'll know it was me 
Taildragger endorsement
- Thread starter drunkenbeagle
- Start date
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Cool, have fun! Those rudder pedals are going to be your best friend.
I was thinking about getting my tailwheel endorsement sometime soon. Does anyone know on average how many hours of dual it takes?
The gliders have taught me to be on top of the rudders, that shouldn't be too hard.
I'll let you know how long it takes me.
Woo! Enjoy it! The part I enjoyed about learning to fly conventional airplanes was how much theory you had to apply to them before you're even airborne. With tricycles, it felt like you mash the gas and you're off.
7-10 hours is quite common.
7-10 hours is quite common.
Joe Gremlin
Well-Known Member
I think 10 hours is pretty common to get the sign-off. Figure 25-50 before most insurance companies will cover you. Figure 200 or so before you can handle the same winds that you would in a trike. Figure 500-1000 before you can handle the same winds that you would in a trike and make it look effortless while you're doing it.Cool, have fun! Those rudder pedals are going to be your best friend.
I was thinking about getting my tailwheel endorsement sometime soon. Does anyone know on average how many hours of dual it takes?
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Okay, just got back. Not nearly as difficult as I thought it would be.
Did a 3 point landing. Greased it in. Beginners luck. Did 5 more, all were fine. Then 4 wheel landings. These are a bit trickier - keeping the right amount of power in is tough. Not enough and your sink rate gets too high. I guess the trick is finding the right power to keep you level in ground effect without bleeding too much airspeed. 1.6 on the Hobbs, 9 landings. Not too scary.
One more hour of wheel landings and I should have the endorsement.
The jury is still out on it being a tail-dragging-death-trap.
Did a 3 point landing. Greased it in. Beginners luck. Did 5 more, all were fine. Then 4 wheel landings. These are a bit trickier - keeping the right amount of power in is tough. Not enough and your sink rate gets too high. I guess the trick is finding the right power to keep you level in ground effect without bleeding too much airspeed. 1.6 on the Hobbs, 9 landings. Not too scary.
One more hour of wheel landings and I should have the endorsement.
The jury is still out on it being a tail-dragging-death-trap.
Joe Gremlin
Well-Known Member
Congratulations of doing so well your first time out. Most of my landings were kind of dicey my first time in a TD. I have to admit that always cringe a bit when I hear of pilots who need to use power on landing in light singles. I cringe a bit more when I hear of CFI's teaching same but that's my own personal cross to bare. Anyway keep at it and have fun. And by all means see if you can get some cub or supercub time once you get the endorsement. There is nothing quite like flying low and slow with the windows open in a cub.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
I cringe a bit more when I hear of CFI's teaching same but that's my own personal cross to bare. Anyway keep at it and have fun. And by all means see if you can get some cub or supercub time once you get the endorsement. There is nothing quite like flying low and slow with the windows open in a cub.
In this case, it has more to do with the airplane. A Cessna 140 won't really do a wheel landing in calm winds without some power. It would be sinking too fast if you keep enough airspeed to have the tail off the ground.
I'll definitely fly a cub if I get the chance.
More likely though, I'll be flying a Piper Pawnee towing gliders. That was the reason for getting the TW in the first place.
Joe Gremlin
Well-Known Member
I never flew a C140 so I'll take your word for it. But while I'll take your word for it, don't be offended if I also take an 'I'll believe it when I see it for myself' attitude. I'm not saying it ain't true but if it is true, this the first time I've ever heard it mentioned. At any rate, I can assure you the Pawnee does not require power in order to wheel it on unless your intention is use extra runway during landing.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
I never flew a C140 so I'll take your word for it. But while I'll ntake your word for it, don't be offended if I also take an 'I'll believe it when I see it for myself' attitude. I'm not saying it ain't true but if it is true, this the first time I've ever heard it mentioned. At any rate, I can assure you the Pawnee does not require power in order to wheel it on unless your intention is use extra runway during landing.
3-point landings are the norm for the pawnee, so I think I'll be ok.
I'll have to trust my CFI for now, he owns a pitts and has a good deal of tailwheel time.
We are only talking about 150 rpm here, nothing crazy
Inverted25
Well-Known Member
Insurance will probaly require at least 100 tailwheel hours to cover you in the Pawnee. Ours is 500 TT and 100 tailwheel plus the required training in the fars.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Ours is zero TW, good for me I guess
Just TT that I already have.Of course, the checkout from our cheif tow pilot may well be over 100 hours
tlewis95
I drive planes
Ours is zero TW, good for me I guess
Of course, the checkout from our cheif tow pilot may well be over 100 hours
That is pretty cool. For us it is the 100 tailwheel and 500TT for the general insurance, but people can be named with as little as 50 TW.
I just can't wait to fly it (pawnee) in the spring!
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Are you doing it in CAMS 140? If so, I know the guy who owns it - he's one of the other owners of my 172. In fact, I think I saw the plane yesterday on a high final to 35R possibly.
jrh
Well-Known Member
I've got a fair amount of time in my C-140 and power doesn't have much to do with the ability to wheel land it. You fly gliders, you know you can make a plane do almost anything without power. It's all about energy management.
The problem is that the main gear is ridiculously "springy." It doesn't absorb any energy from impact...whatever force you touchdown with will get reversed and try to force the plane back in to the air. Therefore you *must* have a near zero rate of descent on touchdown. Otherwise you'll bounce and start the cycle of increasing AoA, flying back in to the air, losing airspeed, and either bouncing again, recovering to a 3-point landing, or going around. Recovering a bounced wheel landing into another wheel landing is possible, but very difficult (as in, I've got about 250 hours of C140 time and I'm still not comfortable doing this type of recovery).
When I wheel land mine, I have to have a smooth runway with no turbulence. That way I can control precisely when/how softly I touch down. Grass runways also work well because you can feel the grass dragging on the wheels prior to actually touching down.
I bring it in faster than normal, at about 80-90 mph. The speed you bring it in at doesn't matter as long as it's fast. You could dive in at 110 mph if you wanted, it would just mean floating longer and the controls being twitchier. Power can (and also, IMO, should be, off) which means you might need a steeper descent angle. That's fine, the 140 has plenty of drag to keep you from going too fast.
Bring it in to ground effect and level off. Since you're going faster, you'll have a few seconds before the speed bleeds off to "fine tune" the touchdown. The main goal is to fly the wheels on to the ground as absolutely gently as you can, before your airspeed slows down enough to require a tail-low attitude. That's why faster approach speeds are needed...it gives you more time to adjust the touchdown. The faster you go, the more time you'll have to assure a smooth contact with the ground.
The instant you feel the wheels rolling on, stop increasing backpressure and give it just a touch of forward yoke movement. And when I say "the instant" I mean, *the instant.* Any hesitation will make it bounce.
As long as you keep the initial touchdown smooth and bounce-free, the rest is easy. Just keep increasing forward pressure as needed to hold the tail up as long as you want.
Hope this helps. Have fun! Aside from the wheel landings being tricky, the 140 is an awesome plane.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
That was me. Went directly over HSN about 5 times between 3 and 5 PM...