SWAPA Strike Vote Closed Early

[ClearedForOption]

Works good for a junior guy.

And that literally hoses middle seniority guys, basically, everyone junior to the ‘senior’ guy that bid the 5 most desirable weeks. And that’s exactly how my shop, your ex-shop, ended up with the system that we have now where your vacation is basically locked.

But i’m sure that trading is allowed by your working agreement, so no greiveance. I wonder if that’s gonna go away when you get your next agreement.

 

[arkflyr]

I wonder if that’s gonna go away when you get your next agreement.

A change to vacation was voted on years ago but the company refuses to implement it. It is one of the few areas of the new contract that is TA’d and I think it is just what was voted in back in 2018ish, been so long I don’t remember.

Since it’s been so long I’m not 100% sure, but what was changed was in the first round of bidding you can only bid two weeks of vacation then unlimited after that. The problem is exactly as @ZapBrannigan described, the senior guys with five weeks of vacation block bid the summer weeks, which there are fewer of, hog them up and then trade down with their buddies. This will, supposedly, prevent that from happening.

Time will tell and I doubt we have a new contract by the time vacation bidding starts in September.

All that sound right to you Zap?

 

[Richman]

I'm not in a trip trade cartel, but I admit that I am a part of a small vacation cartel.

The most senior of us bids a block of 5 summer weeks. I'm the most junior so I bid a block of 3 spring break weeks. The other guys grab the two weeks around thanksgiving and Christmas. The senior guy trades summer weeks for spring break, and a holiday week or two.

So this year for example I ended up with a week of spring break, a week in the summer, and a week adjacent to thanksgiving.

Works good for a junior guy.

No offense man. Your shop, your contract, but I find this….distasteful.

A change to vacation was voted on years ago but the company refuses to implement it. It is one of the few areas of the new contract that is TA’d and I think it is just what was voted in back in 2018ish, been so long I don’t remember.

Since it’s been so long I’m not 100% sure, but what was changed was in the first round of bidding you can only bid two weeks of vacation then unlimited after that. The problem is exactly as @ZapBrannigan described, the senior guys with five weeks of vacation block bid the summer weeks, which there are fewer of, hog them up and then trade down with their buddies. This will, supposedly, prevent that from happening.

Time will tell and I doubt we have a new contract by the time vacation bidding starts in September.

All that sound right to you Zap?

Errrr. If it's an LOA or MOU with the company, that's the same as contract language. If they're not implementing it (please tell they put in a time certain date), then that's a grievance, and one that should be easily winnable.

If they just said OK, yea, we'll do this, then you have nothing.

 

[ClearedForOption]

(And I'm not picking on Zap's specific situation... this is more general pilot behavior stuff.)

 

[Minuteman]

 

[ZapBrannigan]

New website to answer passenger questions.

Southwestpilotstrike.com

 

[///AMG]

New website to answer passenger questions.

Southwestpilotstrike.com

I feel like SWAPA needs to publicize this a lot more if they want it to be useful to the general public. I doubt many will be savvy enough to find that URL on their own (it didn't pop up on a quick google, which is about as far as bob and Tammy are going to look)

 

[roundout]

I feel like SWAPA needs to publicize this a lot more if they want it to be useful to the general public. I doubt many will be savvy enough to find that URL on their own (it didn't pop up on a quick google, which is about as far as bob and Tammy are going to look)

At my place, about the time we voted to authorize a strike, the union bought SEO and advertising so that if you typed in "cheapest airline from Vegas to Florida at 3am" the suggested text was "pilot strike" amongst other web trickery.

 

[///AMG]

At my place, about the time we voted to authorize a strike, the union bought SEO and advertising so that if you typed in "cheapest airline from Vegas to Florida at 3am" the suggested text was "pilot strike" amongst other web trickery.

Yeah that would seem to be the way to do it. I don't know that all these informational pickets don't just fly right over the passengers heads. Not that this is the point of them, but still.

 

[MikeD]

Yeah that would seem to be the way to do it. I don't know that all these informational pickets don't just fly right over the passengers heads. Not that this is the point of them, but still.

Pax don’t care. Most of them see this as rich pilots who drove their Ferraris to the airport, to walk around whining about how they aren’t paid enough and having to sit in a cockpit on their butts pushing buttons. While they themselves struggle to make ends meet living paycheck week to week.

 

[roundout]

Pax don’t care. Most of them see this as rich pilots who drove their Ferraris to the airport, to walk around whining about how they aren’t paid enough and having to sit in a cockpit on their butts pushing buttons. While they themselves struggle to make ends meet living paycheck week to week.

This is one nice thing about working at StruggleBus Air. People assume you’re barely less broke than they are.

 

[Richman]

Pax don’t care. Most of them see this as rich pilots who drove their Ferraris to the airport, to walk around whining about how they aren’t paid enough and having to sit in a cockpit on their butts pushing buttons. While they themselves struggle to make ends meet living paycheck week to week.

Disagree with this. Walked the line multiple times and pax were generally supportive.

 

[JEP]

Disagree with this. Walked the line multiple times and pax were generally supportive.

...as long as it doesn't impact their flight. ;-)

I always went with the thought 'I don't know their issues so I will assume they are valid....'

Had an old manager that stressed the point...."Assume positive intent..." Until someone proves something different to me I will take that route. Tends to make life much easier.....

 

[Nick]

Disagree with this. Walked the line multiple times and pax were generally supportive.

I have observed similar.

Never was on strike, but did get to picket with Spirit during their actual strike as well as 4-5 picketing events over two contract cycles at my own operation and the only passenger feedback was horn honks, thumbs ups, people yelling "thank you pilots!" and a fist bump from a guy checking in as the line walked by him to the picket zone.

Anyone thinking negatively about the event certainly didn't make it known and would have been outnumbered even if they had.

 

[///AMG]

^ Well that is pretty cool. Perhaps i don't have enough faith in humanity to imagine that scenario, but I'm glad to hear it

 

[MikeD]

Disagree with this. Walked the line multiple times and pax were generally supportive.

I’m sure they outwardly would be, as they don’t want their travel plans affected by a strike. And I’m sure others are happy to see a “stick it to the man” situation. But beyond that, I don’t think the general public is too deeply invested in the plight of the airline pilot beyond getting to where they want to travel to, as cheaply as possible.

 

[derg]

Pax don’t care. Most of them see this as rich pilots who drove their Ferraris to the airport, to walk around whining about how they aren’t paid enough and having to sit in a cockpit on their butts pushing buttons. While they themselves struggle to make ends meet living paycheck week to week.

Some do, some don't.

Your business travelers, which are the bread and butter of the operation certainly do because they want schedule reliability. And when your frequent fliers start booking less because you may or may not be flying next month, the economic damage gets the board's attention.

Whenever we picketed at Skyway, the local unions were tremendously supportive because MKE is a blue collar town.

When I was working SPC (Strategic Preparedness Committee which becomes Strike Preparedness Committee when things get worse) the locals were like "How many you want? You need goons? I mean not that we have any but you never know? We'll bring the grill, some brats and there might be a little road soda on hand"

 

[Kingairer]

Yes, Of course I need goons!

 

[derg]

Yes, Of course I need goons!

In retrospect, we should have ordered goons.

It was funny. When they heard that FO's made a flat $14,400 and first year captains made a flat $16,500 whether they worked 5 or 100 hours, they thought we were kidding.

"You wanna wildcat?"

"We can't wildcat"

 

[Richman]

In retrospect, we should have ordered goons.

It was funny. When they heard that FO's made a flat $14,400 and first year captains made a flat $16,500 whether they worked 5 or 100 hours, they thought we were kidding.

"You wanna wildcat?"

"We can't wildcat"

Actual conversation back in 2018:

Them: “Are we going to strike when the contract expires?”

Me: “No, our contract doesn’t expire, it becomes amenable.”

Them: “My cousin works for GM, and they walked when their contract expired”

Me: “They’re under the NLRA, they can do that. We’re under the RLA, and we can’t”

Them: “They say if we don’t come to a deal, arbitrator will decide, and then we can strike”

Me: “Who is ‘they’? And besides, that’s not how it works, at all”

Them: “I read that if we don’t come to a deal, we go to arbitration”.

Me: “Ah, no. Here are several documents from ALPA that lay out the process and timeline. It’s on your EFB also.”

Them: “I don’t read anything from the union. They supported Bill Clinton”

Me:”….”