SWA reducing minimum requirements again

I thought the APA went on record saying AA only had 1700 applications on file? There’s a whole section of the APA website listing reasons why applicants should apply elsewhere.
Yea there is a campaign by the union right now to “educate” why it’s better to go elsewhere. Valid claims. The pool of applicants may be getting smaller but I haven’t heard of it drying up or people no showing classes. They can always pull from the WOs.
 
Took me two tries and I had more than twice that experience.
They hired a 1600 hour FO a few weeks back. They've hired numerous FOs—most of the candidates in my group were FOs with less time than me*, including a number from my shop. Speaking of which, they've hired some pretty questionable people from my shop, including one who (from what I hear) chucked a chair at someone in the training department and another who tried to stall an E-jet at altitude to try and make a crossing restriction without a word to his FO.

But if the experience was such that you're no longer interested, I understand that

The experience of the interview itself was alright. I got misgendered quite a few times (and my corrections were ignored), and it cost me quite a bit out of my own pocket for interview prep, all the paperwork they required, lyfts, and the hotel (All the recommended hotels were booked solid, and the Aloft wanted $800/night. I found a place a few miles away for "only" $200). But the people seemed fine, overall, and I was excited for the opportunity.

Here's my personal take:

I'm the same person now that I will be later. It's not like I bombed a technical interview—they rejected me as a person, not as a pilot. Why would they then turn around after that and hire me other than "Well, we're just more desperate now."

And if that's the answer, well that's a bad answer.

(*- I have no idea if they were hired, to be fair.)
 
I'm the same person now that I will be later. It's not like I bombed a technical interview—they rejected me as a person, not as a pilot. Why would they then turn around after that and hire me other than "Well, we're just more desperate now."

And if that's the answer, well that's a bad answer.

(*- I have no idea if they were hired, to be fair.)

B6.

West coast is junior on the right side... LAX. You should easily hold it out of NH training. Once the merger is complete it will be two junior-ish out west bases, LAX/LAS. LAX from the left is nowhere as senior as it used to be. Solid contract, money is good with humane reserve rules. (Looking at you AA) And, after the merge it'll be to SWA what Coke Zero is to Coke. Or maybe SWA in the 90's is a better analogy.

There also is narrowbody QOL choices avail in scheduling out of different bases... international stuff, transcons, east coast shuttle... etc. The only roll of the dice in training is the 220/190 slots. Lock is only 1 year. West coast flying is a lot of red eyes. A lot.
 
And yet United hired a person from my shop who failed upgrade training and got fired after exhausting the contractual remedies allowed to him or her as the event failures piled up. Who has the more reconcilable journey?

They hired a guy from here who got the stick shaker trying to outclimb a storm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I'm the same person now that I will be later. It's not like I bombed a technical interview—they rejected me as a person, not as a pilot. Why would they then turn around after that and hire me other than "Well, we're just more desperate now."

And if that's the answer, well that's a bad answer.

(*- I have no idea if they were hired, to be fair.)
It’s highly likely the interview will be conducted with someone different next time. Sometimes things may just not click with one person, yet the same performance would garner a yes from another. It happens and is what it is. I would caution completely removing an option just because of one unsuccessful interview.
 
And yet United hired a person from my shop who failed upgrade training and got fired after exhausting the contractual remedies allowed to him or her as the event failures piled up. Who has the more reconcilable journey?

I mean, yeah, I’d find that easier to swallow, to be honest.

It’s highly likely the interview will be conducted with someone different next time. Sometimes things may just not click with one person, yet the same performance would garner a yes from another. It happens and is what it is. I would caution completely removing an option just because of one unsuccessful interview.

Especially when Southwest is well known for wanting people to apply multiple times. They’ve hired guys on third interviews.
 
It’s highly likely the interview will be conducted with someone different next time. Sometimes things may just not click with one person, yet the same performance would garner a yes from another. It happens and is what it is. I would caution completely removing an option just because of one unsuccessful interview.
Counterpoint - since literally everyone is desperate to hire, why bother at a place that left you feeling like it isn’t a good fit?
 
You’re gonna consider this to be harsh, but as an employer, my advice to you is to hire an interview prep company to help you come up with a plausible and acceptable story for why you left a job as an airline captain to go play roller derby. Most employers in a highly conservative profession like aviation are gonna have a hard time reconciling that.
I don't consider it harsh, and I did actually work with an interview prep service.

To be completely blunt (And this is probably TMI): I left a job as an airline captain at a regional because I'd just had a pretty significant surgery. I needed to perform an intimate personal task (30-45 minutes long) on a strict schedule three evenly-spaced times per day for the first six months, and 2-3 times a day for the next 3-4 months. Said task was completely incompatible with flight deck operations. (Trust me)

I was also told (after surgery) that I needed to avoid extended periods of sitting. But I was cleared to "return to work," so I couldn't get an FMLA extension without the doctor signing off that I couldn't work. (And due to reasons, work was 10+ hours a day, 20+ days per month)

Ultimately, I did get a message from a CP several days after I turned in notice asking if I would be interested in an LOA instead. But at that point, I had messages from several people who were pretty confident they could get me in at their shops, and I didn't want to string my former shop along. I absolutely loved the plane, loved the crews, loved the flying, and I even really liked the company. But the management/pilot relationship had deteriorated, the organizing drive I was a part of had failed, and I couldn't see myself coming back, especially with other prospects on the horizon.

Guess that decision killed my career.
 
Guess that decision killed my career.

I doubt it killed it, but I suspect you’ll need to start back at the regionals again, or maybe the ACMIs. It will likely be very difficult to get into a major after leaving. And the same would likely be true for me if I ever needed to go back. A friend of mine who left the airlines to run his own accounting firm after Comair went under recently decided to return to flying, and he had to start at Envoy. I doubt he’ll need to be there that long, but getting straight to a major after leaving aviation for a period of time is a big lift.
 
I don't consider it harsh, and I did actually work with an interview prep service.

To be completely blunt (And this is probably TMI): I left a job as an airline captain at a regional because I'd just had a pretty significant surgery. I needed to perform an intimate personal task (30-45 minutes long) on a strict schedule three evenly-spaced times per day for the first six months, and 2-3 times a day for the next 3-4 months. Said task was completely incompatible with flight deck operations. (Trust me)

I was also told (after surgery) that I needed to avoid extended periods of sitting. But I was cleared to "return to work," so I couldn't get an FMLA extension without the doctor signing off that I couldn't work. (And due to reasons, work was 10+ hours a day, 20+ days per month)

Ultimately, I did get a message from a CP several days after I turned in notice asking if I would be interested in an LOA instead. But at that point, I had messages from several people who were pretty confident they could get me in at their shops, and I didn't want to string my former shop along. I absolutely loved the plane, loved the crews, loved the flying, and I even really liked the company. But the management/pilot relationship had deteriorated, the organizing drive I was a part of had failed, and I couldn't see myself coming back, especially with other prospects on the horizon.

Guess that decision killed my career.

It didn't kill it, but the longer you sit on the shelf, the less desirable you will become. You need to get a flying job, preferably turbine, and it might mean starting over at a regional. Also, judging from the post above (not this one that I am quoting), it sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder. You might just be venting on here, which is understandable, or maybe you need to ask yourself some tough questions. I have found it true in my life that when one door closes, another one opens. Either way, good luck.
 
I doubt it killed it, but I suspect you’ll need to start back at the regionals again, or maybe the ACMIs. It will likely be very difficult to get into a major after leaving. And the same would likely be true for me if I ever needed to go back. A friend of mine who left the airlines to run his own accounting firm after Comair went under recently decided to return to flying, and he had to start at Envoy. I doubt he’ll need to be there that long, but getting straight to a major after leaving aviation for a period of time is a big lift.

If anything it's a recency of experience issue. At least I would guess that. I've heard both sides of those anecdotal tales from crashpad-mates and other pilot's I've flown with over the last 6-8 months from their particular experiences in the hiring pipeline.

If you actually wanted to come back, now would actually be the perfect time. Put the main gig on autopilot and see what happens. I think that you would be surprised. (Maybe even pleasantly?)
 
If anything it's a recency of experience issue. At least I would guess that. I've heard both sides of those anecdotal tales from crashpad-mates and other pilot's I've flown with over the last 6-8 months from their particular experiences in the hiring pipeline.

If you actually wanted to come back, now would actually be the perfect time. Put the main gig on autopilot and see what happens. I think that you would be surprised. (Maybe even pleasantly?)

Nah, I have zero desire. That lifestyle doesn’t work for me, particularly now with a family. But I can’t even get a medical even if I wanted to.
 
Guess that decision killed my career.

Not at all. The whole hiring market seems like it is changing daily. Over the last say... 6 months... I feel as if it has changed. (Again) There are all sorts of data points out there. Contract extensions... Regional bonuses and pay table extensions. All the anecdotal stories. Pilot X leaving Legacy Y for Legacy Z and etc.

Not taking the LOA, 20/20 hindsight, might not have been the best move. But that doesn't mean that every door is closed forever.
 
I doubt it killed it, but I suspect you’ll need to start back at the regionals again, or maybe the ACMIs. It will likely be very difficult to get into a major after leaving. And the same would likely be true for me if I ever needed to go back. A friend of mine who left the airlines to run his own accounting firm after Comair went under recently decided to return to flying, and he had to start at Envoy. I doubt he’ll need to be there that long, but getting straight to a major after leaving aviation for a period of time is a big lift.
In my case, it was barely a year off at the end of a decade of airline flying. My previous shop would have sent me to do one sim session, then straight back to CQ. (And I'd be ready for it. I'm ready for it now.)

That said, I was surprised to be invited to interview, as I figured it was at the outside edge of recency. I've now been informed that the team sending out interview invites doesn't take those things into account, which seems a bit ... off, to me.

It didn't kill it, but the longer you sit on the shelf, the less desirable you will become. You need to get a flying job, preferably turbine, and it might mean starting over at a regional.

The problem is that the regionals are pretty awful right now with regard to quality of life. (I do know that's nothing new) The thought of spending all my time commuting across the country to fly myself to a burned husk after ten years, for the -possible- opportunity to move on? That's a bit tough, I'm not going to lie. After seven weeks of out-of-base reserve sitting in random hotels in 2021, I was a complete zombie on the days I was home. The thought of doing that again from ground 0 is ... tough.

Also, judging from the post above (not this one that I am quoting), it sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder. You might just be venting on here, which is understandable, or maybe you need to ask yourself some tough questions.

I'm definitely venting. It's incredibly demoralizing getting rejected by a second major in a row when everybody you know is getting hired everywhere, even people who've barely touched a thrust lever. Believe me, I came into the game never expecting to move to a major, so it's not that I feel specifically entitled to the job—but if you look at the subject of this thread, and the discussion about how "desperate" airlines are to hire, it might be clear why it's so crushing.

My non-pilot friends are absolutely stunned that I didn't get hired. "But isn't there a huge pilot shortage right now?" "Have you tried flying private planes?" "You should go work for Delta." "Have you applied overseas?" "What about the military?"

Most of my pilot friends are all pretty shocked, too. "Have you tried <my shop>?" "Have you tried ACMI?" "You need to go back to a regional." ... and while the latter might be true, it's certainly demoralizing. I've been cheering people on for four years now as they move up, move on, and land their dream jobs. Watching flight attendants I work with put themselves through flight school, come back as pilots, and then move on to the majors.

From a mentoring and cheerleading point of view, it's been literally the most amazing thing, and I'm so happy to see good people go to good places.

But part of me is a bit gutted, I have to admit.

I have found it true in my life that when one door closes, another one opens. Either way, good luck.

I had thought, after Alaska said no, that this might be the door that opened. But it seems not.

Anyway, I don't want to make this stupid thread about me. I just wanted to drop in to say that they're apparently not that desperate yet. :p
 
@Acrofox you've always seemed like a cool person to me.

In 2016 I was fired from a corporate job because I insisted on getting FMLA for the birth of my child. I basically escalated it to that point so I'd then get unemployment. I then spent a year of my life being a stay at home dad. SkyWest helped me get my career back on track during 2017. 2018 I was hired at AS.
 
Back
Top