SWA pulling out of four cities

[ClearedForOption]

Boeing is already teetering on collapse, maybe Southwest should consider Airbus? Nope, they don't have any new airplanes immediately available either. What I don't understand is these airplanes are built to work almost 24/7/365 for a very long time, if they've been operating these routes with fairly modern airplanes why just drop routes, close stations and lay off 2000 people because they aren't getting their brand new jets? When was the last time they operated a 737-200? I know absolutely nothing about airline economics. I have a list of domestic airlines I won't fly on, Southwest is not on that list.

If only there was a vitrual Airline with a huge East Coast, Caribbean, and even a European presence that would almost perfectly complement their route structure with an all Airbus Fleet and almost zero overlap - it's also too bad that the Gov't would probably run in circles, scream, shout, and sue the next day if that was explored as a possibility because it would cause so-called "harm" the little guy. (well... and the Big 3)

 

[ClearedForOption]

Oh, and the obligatory post for a thread with 'negative' news:

 

[alaskadrifter]

Fwiw there won't be any layoffs. They're relying on attrition to reduce headcount, plus some consilidation of positions at headquarters. They said in the Q1 conference call this morning no layoffs.

I’d imagine attrition will be low for sometime given your new contract and reduced hiring elsewhere.

 

[killbilly]

If only there was a vitrual Airline with a huge East Coast, Caribbean, and even a European presence that would almost perfectly complement their route structure with an all Airbus Fleet and almost zero overlap - it's also too bad that the Gov't would probably run in circles, scream, shout, and sue the next day if that was explored as a possibility because it would cause so-called "harm" the little guy. (well... and the Big 3)

Indeed. If only.

(Well played, sir)

 

[Hiboglossi]

Indeed. If only.

(Well played, sir)

Haven't past mergers worked out pretty poorly for employees of companies that merged with or were acquired by Southwest? Careful what you wish for...

 

[MikeD]

Haven't past mergers worked out pretty poorly for employees of companies that merged with or were acquired by Southwest? Careful what you wish for...

Good question for Todd / Slumtodd.

 

[///AMG]

There's no guarantees in stocks. You have some so you are what I'd call a forced optimist, I'm not saying you're not a savvy investor. I'm just saying the company is in real trouble right now, senior management folks might be facing criminal charges. I'll happily get on a 737 (even a -8 MAX or whatever it is) without a second thought. But the truth is they seem to have gotten less engineer driven and more board room driven over the last few decades and it's showing. Your stock might be worthless sooner than you think.

uhhhh wat?

Senior management facing criminal charges? Is there a source to back up this claim, that I've missed?

Like Cherokee said, right now, or probably anytime in the very near future, is a great time to buy. BA was at $265/share in December, trending upwards until the door blew off so to speak. It got down to I think $130 ish after the MAX crashes. It's now down to $170 or maybe less, last I looked. In a couple years, based on the DoD/defense stuff alone, it will be tickling $300/share.

 

[ClearedForOption]

Haven't past mergers worked out pretty poorly for employees of companies that merged with or were acquired by Southwest? Careful what you wish for...

Good question for Todd / Slumtodd.

I disagree.

And this last round of CBA's - especially a very Azul one - has specific protections against the shenanigans and games that were played by a certain LUV filled air carrier.

Wouldn't be my first choice for a "dancing partner" - but it's very much in the realm of possibility vs. merging with any of the other players in the room...

And it would answer the burning question - would Zap end up senior to his former self?

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

uhhhh wat?

Senior management facing criminal charges? Is there a source to back up this claim, that I've missed?

Like Cherokee said, right now, or probably anytime in the very near future, is a great time to buy. BA was at $265/share in December, trending upwards until the door blew off so to speak. It got down to I think $130 ish after the MAX crashes. It's now down to $170 or maybe less, last I looked. In a couple years, based on the DoD/defense stuff alone, it will be tickling $300/share.

Just because the price is low, doesn’t mean it’s a good value. Spirit’s stock was once $40+, are you a buyer right now at $3.50?

The fundamentals at Boeing are bad. They haven’t made a profit since 2018, increasing debt, dinosaur company with little innovation and bad quality control. They’re a dog and overpriced as is.

They’re in an odd spot where they have to slow down growth to fix their processes, but can’t really do that, because they need to sell airplanes to stay afloat.

 

[killbilly]

Just because the price is low, doesn’t mean it’s a good value. Spirit’s stock was once $40+, are you a buyer right now at $3.50?

The fundamentals at Boeing are bad. They haven’t made a profit since 2018, increasing debt, dinosaur company with little innovation and bad quality control. They’re a dog and overpriced as is.

They’re in an odd spot where they have to slow down growth to fix their processes, but can’t really do that, because they need to sell airplanes to stay afloat.

For that division of Boeing, yeah. It's a multi-headed beast of a company, though, and other divisions of it (defense) are doing pretty well.

I really, really, REALLY hate the phrase "Too Big to Fail" but Boeing is certainly in that camp.

 

[Wardogg]

Boeing teetering on collapse? That’s a bit much.

Great buying opportunity right now

God forbid this Starliner launch in May goes awry and we lose two brave astronauts.

Boeing will never recover.

 

[Richman]

Kinda reminds me of when American went into the DAL market with the all business class F-100s

The Time American Fokker F-100s Were Deployed To Crush A Competitor

American's Fokker F-100s, 'jump jets' or 'barbie jets' were retrofitted to just 56 first class seats. They crushed Legend Airlines.

avgeekery.com

Meh. Amateur hour. Back in the day, Northernjets would launch 747s into your town.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

For that division of Boeing, yeah. It's a multi-headed beast of a company, though, and other divisions of it (defense) are doing pretty well.

I really, really, REALLY hate the phrase "Too Big to Fail" but Boeing is certainly in that camp.

Sure, too big to fail, but that doesn't mean it is a good investment. This graphic from their 10-K tells you all you need to know as an investor.

 

[Richman]

Sure, too big to fail, but that doesn't mean it is a good investment. This graphic from their 10-K tells you all you need to know as an investor.View attachment 77608

"There's no money in aviation"
-Wilbur Wright, probably

 

[Roger Roger]

If the primary purpose of these businesses was truly to turn a profit, then we’d let them fail when they don’t. But explicitly or not, we all recognize that they play a way bigger role in society than making a profit for their shareholders. That’s not a bad thing, but we should just openly admit it and they should be run and regulated with that in mind.

 

[JetDoc]

Wasn't it WN who insisted Boeing build the MAX with the 60 year overhead panel and no EICAS because the didn't want to have to train pilots for a new type rating or is that just urban legend?

 

[Richman]

If the primary purpose of these businesses was truly to turn a profit, then we’d let them fail when they don’t. But explicitly or not, we all recognize that they play a way bigger role in society than making a profit for their shareholders. That’s not a bad thing, but we should just openly admit it and they should be run and regulated with that in mind.

If we were back in the age of regulation, that ticket from East Bumbleswallow, Ohio would be $2500 per passenger.

The airlines don't care. In fact, it's easier for them to operate a smaller network and charge more per seat and compete on who's caviar was the saltiest.

Douglas, by some accounts, was a horribly run business, but as long a airline fleets were turning over every 6 years, vesus 30, they couldn't build airplanes fast enough.

BTW, this thread didn't age well:

"Why the big boys won't come back" - Fortune says majors doomed

\"Why the big boys won\'t come back\" - Fortune says majors doomed I found this article very interesting and thought you guys might be interested too. ************************* Airlines: Why the Big Boys Won't Come Back FOR THE NATION'S BELEAGUERED AIRLINE INDUSTRY, THE TIPPING POINT IS...

jetcareers.com

 

[Skåning]

Wasn't it WN who insisted Boeing build the MAX with the 60 year overhead panel and no EICAS because the didn't want to have to train pilots for a new type rating or is that just urban legend?

It's not just the overhead panel, literally every part of the Guppy sucks

 

[Skåning]

BTW, this thread didn't age well:

Unfortunately, the cuts the majors need to compete are so deep--on the order of 30% to 40%--that their hostile unions will never grant them. Even the savings from bankruptcy have never been sufficient to put the majors on a par with the discounters.

bUt ThE PiLoT sHoRtAgE!!!!

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Wasn't it WN who insisted Boeing build the MAX with the 60 year overhead panel and no EICAS because the didn't want to have to train pilots for a new type rating or is that just urban legend?

Urban legend. It was actually American who led the charge for a common type rating. (That said, I’m betting SWA would have if AA hadn’t)

It’s still an enjoyable airplane to fly, albeit a bit antiquated. But what do I know? I enjoyed flying the DC9, the Saab, and the Jetstream too (none of which is any more modern than the 737). I’m not exactly one of the children of the magenta line.