SWA a stepping stone airline

[SteveC]

Figuring out your number is the tough part. Used to be they said you could use 4% of your retirement per year after you pull the trigger. Well, 4% of a million dollars is $40,000 a year. Most of us can’t do that. Can you live on $80,000 a year? $120,000? Now you’re up over $3,000,000 and many of us won’t have that in our 50s. 4% is conservative, yet when you’re talking about all the money you’ll ever have left to spend, maybe conservative is a good thing.

Don’t forget to add Social Security.

 

[MikeD]

As I got older, I came to understand everyone's "top" is different.

Absolutely. The 121 world isn’t the end all, be all of aviation. But a lot of pilots, both existing and up and coming, don’t know this because the prominence of the 121 airlines makes it appear to be the only “top of the mountain” in aviation. For some, it is. And that’s fine. For others, it’s not, but they find themselves stuck there. And for even others, it’s not, and they found one of the other parts of aviation that suited their desires.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Absolutely. The 121 world isn’t the end all, be all of aviation. But a lot of pilots, both existing and up and coming, don’t know this because the prominence of the 121 airlines makes it appear to be the only “top of the mountain” in aviation. For some, it is. And that’s fine. For others, it’s not, but they find themselves stuck there. And for even others, it’s not, and they found one of the other parts of aviation that suited their desires.

Meh. I flew Corporate for the Fortune #1 company for 8 years. Didn’t take long before I really missed the airlines.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Don’t forget to add Social Security.

I’ve added that to my calculations. I’m counting on $0.00 starting at age 67.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Meh. I flew Corporate for the Fortune #1 company for 8 years. Didn’t take long before I really missed the airlines.

Corpies gonna Corp

 

[JordanD]

Don’t forget to add Social Security.

I try to base my planning on it just not existing by the time I hit retirement age.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Absolutely. The 121 world isn’t the end all, be all of aviation. But a lot of pilots, both existing and up and coming, don’t know this because the prominence of the 121 airlines makes it appear to be the only “top of the mountain” in aviation. For some, it is. And that’s fine. For others, it’s not, but they find themselves stuck there. And for even others, it’s not, and they found one of the other parts of aviation that suited their desires.

I mean. It most likely is the “safest” career in terms of long term prospects, especially with mergers and mamouth carriers. A seniority system that guarantees (as much as possible) no favoritism, ass kissing, etc.
And arguably, one of the consistent highest paying gigs out there.


And of all the flying jobs, we don’t have to do jack outside of flying the darn thing. No catering, no fueling, no flight planning (as in, dispatch calculates and gives you the plan, you still verify it), etc etc

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I try to base my planning on it just not existing by the time I hit retirement age.

Yup. I think anyone under 40 would be wise to plan so. And if it exists, great. But you won’t be caught off guard when the ponzi falls apart.


Americans aren’t birthing enough people, the new workforce numbers won’t keep up, and boomer, Gen X, millenial, etc, are still in great numbers.


Of course one solution is to end the cap on wage limit of 6.2% for an employee. It goes up every year based on inflation. That’s gonna tick off upper middle class and higher, but I don’t think the commoners will care because they always pay an effective 6.2% anyway. But I don’t even know if that would be enough. The rich will just find a way to shelter their money.

 

[MikeD]

Meh. I flew Corporate for the Fortune #1 company for 8 years. Didn’t take long before I really missed the airlines.

And conversely, every airline flight I fly, I’m bored off my butt. The flying isnt challenging or interesting, watching distance to go to the next waypoint count down. Doesn’t mean its a bad job at all, its a good job for the person who can enjoy that kind of flying…..or monitoring, as the case may be. That’s just not me, I like to have some kind of challenge, something that tests and hones the flying skills, and with a sense of accomplishment. That’s just what keeps me interested, its not something I get from general 121 flying that’s mostly autopilot watching. Hence why its merely used as some easy extra cash for a type I happen to hold.

 

[MikeD]

I mean. It most likely is the “safest” career in terms of long term prospects, especially with mergers and mamouth carriers. A seniority system that guarantees (as much as possible) no favoritism, ass kissing, etc.
And arguably, one of the consistent highest paying gigs out there.


And of all the flying jobs, we don’t have to do jack outside of flying the darn thing. No catering, no fueling, no flight planning (as in, dispatch calculates and gives you the plan, you still verify it), etc etc

like anything in aviation, 121 has its own risks and rewards, as you outline above. It’s a good job like many flying jobs, and its the most common one in terms of pilots who do it. For those that enjoy not just the type of flying, but the lifestyle such as commuting or living on the road or other unique aspects to the job, its a good fit for them. And more power to them.

 

[Springer]

Absolutely. The 121 world isn’t the end all, be all of aviation. But a lot of pilots, both existing and up and coming, don’t know this because the prominence of the 121 airlines makes it appear to be the only “top of the mountain” in aviation.

Agree Mike, goal was to fly a fighter. Airlines were not on the horizon until I realized 20 AF years were not going to cut it for retirement. Airlines allowed retirement to meet the level I wanted at 59 when I pulled the handles to do this:

 

[jrh]

Matches my life situation exactly. I could have made a boatload more money elsewhere, but at what cost? Shoot, originally I moved on from a well paying non-flying career of 23 years to fly piston twins for $24K. I certainly didn’t make the move for the money. I wanted to fly airplanes and enjoy my life.

Don't get the wrong idea, I knew I couldn’t stay at that crappy pay forever, and we had contingency plans in place. But once I got to the place where I was flying nice equipment and making a “livable” wage (a very personal criteria for sure) I got very picky about moving jobs without taking into account all the factors. Shoot, back in 2008 I had an application in at NetJets, and they called and offered an interview opportunity. I thought about it long and hard because the salary increase would have been substantial, and the 7/7 schedule would have been working fewer days per month by a substantial margin, as we were working 6/3 at the time. I ended up declining the interview.

Here was my thought process at the time:
1. While the schedule sounded more appealing on a days-off basis, the reality of what we were doing was a lot more fun for me. With NetJets I’d be gone from home for seven days straight. With my current position there were seldom more than one or two RONS in a row, and the rare multi-day trips were often spent lounging in very nice places. Company policy was to keep the plane with the customer when possible, so spending some “free”days in places like Aspen or St. Thomas popped up from time to time. NetJets flies to those places too, but often don’t get enough time on the ground to really enjoy them. I probably averaged twice as many nights at home than I would have at NetJets.

2. We really got to know our customers. Our business model was primarily three pronged;
a. Aircraft owned by a single entity.
b. Fractionally owned aircraft.
c. 25 hour blocks of occupied aircraft time.
Those three types of customers kept our fleet busy enough that we seldom went outside of our established customer base for open charter. That means that we were flying the same few hundred people on a regular basis, and we got to know each other and establish actual relationships. It’s hard to describe how much it can add to job satisfaction to be able to provide exceptional service because you understand your customers. We had one aircraft owner that hated turbulence or sketchy weather, and he knew that we knew, and that he could count on us to offer him the best possible conditions by leaving early, leaving late, even waiting a day. Some people feel more comfortable with a personal touch and want to chat a few minutes getting ready to depart, while others are focused on their business and want everything ready to roll and an absolute minimum of interaction. Part 91 corporate operations are similar in this regard, but I think that we had a wider variety of customers without losing the personal touch, which I really enjoyed (along with keeping enough distance between flight crews and pax that we could more easily maintain control of all safety aspects).

3. Quality aircraft. Almost our entire fleet was relatively new aircraft, impeccably maintained. Spotless inside and out, and MEL’s were rare and cleared as quickly as possible. Our planes were coming back through home base every few days and got much better attention than aircraft that are gone 24/7 for months at a time.

4. I was OK with the potential career earning where I was. Would more money have been better? Of course, but at what cost? We could afford the lifestyle, house, and travel that we wanted, and we could fund our retirement at a level that meant no future loss in any of those QOL areas. Again, more money would have allowed us even more of what we enjoyed, but it would be incremental only, and I wasn’t willing to give up current QOL for that next level. I often reminded myself that a took a pay cut when switching careers to do what I enjoyed, and that the trade-off was worth it.

NetJets wasn’t the only opportunity I had to move on. I’m not saying that I wouldn’t have moved jobs - no place is perfect and I can think of quite a few operations that I would have gladly jumped ship for - but those pieces never fell into place and that’s ok too. Bottom line is that there is always more to consider than just the money, and I’m perfectly happy with my life path. More importantly, I think it’s imperative to keep the wider perspective in mind while life is happening all around you - primarily to reduce the tendency to fixate on the things that you don’t like about your current situation rather than concentrating on what brings you joy. Life’s too short to be miserable.

Whenever someone questions my decision to fly Citations for the past seven years and indefinitely into the future, I'll save my breath and refer them to @SteveC 's post. Sounds like I'm currently living the life he retired from. It's nice.

 

[Crockrocket94]

We spend $40k/yr including our $1200/month mortgage. $3.5m in the bank. Up until three months ago I was still driving the same car I learned to drive in at age 15.

Lol at some point the "I hope the car doesn't breakdown" vs saving 20K over the life of it outweighs the logic haha.

 

[JEP]

Agree Mike, goal was to fly a fighter. Airlines were not on the horizon until I realized 20 AF years were not going to cut it for retirement. Airlines allowed retirement to meet the level I wanted at 59 when I pulled the handles to do this:

View attachment 75701

That's a pretty bird......

 

[ZapBrannigan]

We pay cash for all our cars. My wife has the "nice" car. It's a 5 year old Subaru. My son has a 6 year old Chevy Volt.

I drive the 18 year old Pontiac Vibe.

Might be getting close to replacing the Pontiac. Not sure what with though.

 

[JEP]

We pay cash for all our cars. My wife has the "nice" car. It's a 5 year old Subaru. My son has a 6 year old Chevy Volt.

I drive the 18 year old Pontiac Vibe.

Might be getting close to replacing the Pontiac. Not sure what with though.

18 year old......That's impressive

 

[MikeD]

18 year old......That's impressive

The K5 is 40 years old. But kind of nickel and dimes me same.

 

[JEP]

The K5 is 40 years old. But kind of nickel and dimes me same.

is that the white one that rides out into the vegas desert ?

 

[MikeD]

is that the white one that rides out into the vegas desert ?

That’s the one!

 

[///AMG]

Lol at some point the "I hope the car doesn't breakdown" vs saving 20K over the life of it outweighs the logic haha.

True to a point, but firstly, I am impressed at his dedication.....it is way more than my own, and I consider myself to be more frugal than most. And on that note, I drive a 20 year old car as my daily/airport car. It's German and has good bones, but I spend a lot (though WAY less than $20k cumulatively) here and there, maintaining it as well. I'll probably jinx myself here, but a breakdown on the freeway going to work has never been at the front of my mind. Treated well, old cars can live long lives. Which I'm sure you know. It just bears repeating.