Sun Country ATP partnership

I don't like purple and dick being in the same sentence.

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Exactly. Your carriers like Sun Country, Spirit, Allegiant and Frontier with their poor contracts, lack of stability, crushing debt and overall lack of viability are seriously struggling to attract even bottom of the barrel applicants. I expect this to perpetuate in the future and thus the reason Sun Country is pulling out all the stops going after these private pilots with zero experience training them essentially from zero to hero since no one else is interested in working at these outfits.

“Through these Dacujs walk the finest Cadets”
 
Guess you missed the fact that I work for American Airlines. Yes, I'm on the AA side but....if I were to still be on the Envoy side, I would still work for....American Airlines. That's how it is structured now. Our Envoy colleagues are every bit AA as we are. Same uniforms, NN numbered airplanes, Jetnet, DECS, same payroll company, AA management structure, etc. I could go on but I've always said that and haven't changed my tune one iota since the new American took over and essentially morphed Envoy into AA.

So Compass was really AA then too…their planes were NN numbered (minus 207/208AN)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

There you have it. Now you can go from ERAU to Frontier or should you prefer Boeing, ATP to Sun Country.



On the one hand I think "how low can you go." On the other hand I suppose it's still better than MPL.
Since we can't seem to kill it and can't stop it from marketing itself, can we just automate all the airplanes already, and allow this avi-education industrial complex to die a "natural" death by starvation?

When Pop wanted to become a pilot, he was told (by a guidance counselor!?!) that he needed to get degree in Aerodynamic Engineering. Counselor was not correct. And Pop was stupid (stupid enough to get the degree).

50 years later... Counselor was correct. And Pop was not stupid.
 
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Exactly. Your carriers like Sun Country, Spirit, Allegiant and Frontier with their poor contracts, lack of stability, crushing debt and overall lack of viability are seriously struggling to attract even bottom of the barrel applicants. I expect this to perpetuate in the future and thus the reason Sun Country is pulling out all the stops going after these private pilots with zero experience training them essentially from zero to hero since no one else is interested in working at these outfits.
No idea now, but pre-pan Frontier seemed to be attracting good folks and upgrading their contract. Don't know anything about the others.

edit: Oh, now I see how all the 121 knowledgeable guys are piling on your statement. Disregard.
 
Exactly. Your carriers like Sun Country, Spirit, Allegiant and Frontier with their poor contracts, lack of stability, crushing debt and overall lack of viability are seriously struggling to attract even bottom of the barrel applicants. I expect this to perpetuate in the future and thus the reason Sun Country is pulling out all the stops going after these private pilots with zero experience training them essentially from zero to hero since no one else is interested in working at these outfits.

Hey, keyboard warrior,

How about you do your research before you spew more garbage. What you just said is 100% incorrect.

Respectfully,

The JC Community
 
I only extended a job offer to 1 CFI in the last 5 that I have interviewed. The funny thing is, all 4 that got rejected couldn't even pass a PPL checkride. 2 of the 4 were from ATP. You wanna know the funny thing, both ATP CFI's didn't give a rats ass that they didn't know enough to pass a PPL checkride after I told them. The look on their faces was one of "IDGAF, after this, I'm just going to go home to my parents home and keep living rent free and make more posts on IG about how cool I am that I'm a CFI now". Entitlement and narcissism is an all time high in society rn.
 
I only extended a job offer to 1 CFI in the last 5 that I have interviewed. The funny thing is, all 4 that got rejected couldn't even pass a PPL checkride. 2 of the 4 were from ATP. You wanna know the funny thing, both ATP CFI's didn't give a rats ass that they didn't know enough to pass a PPL checkride after I told them. The look on their faces was one of "IDGAF, after this, I'm just going to go home to my parents home and keep living rent free and make more posts on IG about how cool I am that I'm a CFI now". Entitlement and narcissism is an all time high in society rn.

I think part of this stems from the rule change allowing schools to essentially pick their DPE for CFI rides, bypassing the FSDO. Prior to the rule change my FSDO district failure rate was around 90% for initial CFI, whereas now the failure rate is almost reversed. With DPE's being able to do 3 rides a day now, they're also much shorter than they've historically been.

Combined with the thought that academies like ATP aren't going to keep DPE's that have a high failure rate, what you described above could be a byproduct of that policy change as well.
 
Hilariously, I’ve lived under both the Envoy Air (though it wasn’t called that, then) and a “garbage ULCC” CBA.

Guess which one isn’t garbage? :)

I totally agree. However, our ULCC garbage contract is a lot closer to being an actual ULCC garbage contract then your ULCC "garbage contract."
 
I totally agree. However, our ULCC garbage contract is a lot closer to being an actual ULCC garbage contract then your ULCC "garbage contract."
Toooooo beeeeee faaaaaaaaaaaaaaair!

(Indeed. I was kind of indifferent toward SCY even when I was living in MSP. I'd still say it's got more upward potential [no, seriously, I am rooting heavily for that] than Envoy, though, because eventually, American is going to get tired of hoovering up the Dacujes of the world. ;) )
 
Oh, I know jack all right and much more. I can tell you that those carriers might look attractive on the outside to a particular set of applicants but it's like a pig. You can give a pig a bath, dress him up nicely and apply some cologne or perfume but it doesn't change the fact that he is still....a pig.

I know the pay numbers and contracts for these carriers pretty well and can see they can't hold a candle to American Airlines. AA is the largest major airline IN THE WORLD. Why anyone would pass up a career if they had half a chance at AA just tells me that the person has a screw loose somewhere. Yes, unfortunately these people do exist but the good thing is, the facade they put on to get in the door at AA has been revealed and it's really good riddance at this point.

 

Yellow comes in to Miami guns blazing, Green hits DFW hard......Can we just merge already? I'm getting tired of commuting.

Also, from the article you linked:

When all deliveries are complete, and assuming Frontier chooses to retain most of its Airbus A320ceo family of aircraft, save for the Airbus A319s it is retiring, then Frontier will have nearly 260 aircraft in its fleet, meaning it will over double in size.

GET YOUR HOURS AND GET YOUR BUTT IN THE SEAT.
 
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