Sully speaks

[Toonces]

Reading some of the comments on that article makes me wanna puke. It;s all right there; the general publuc thinks we all make $125 an hour and all we do is engage the autopilot at 1500 ft and play with our consumer electronics. Me personally, I like to spend the duration of the flight trying to figure out how I am going to spend some of my 6 figure salary on my 32 hour overnight in Paris.

It is a colosal waste of time trying to educate the public. They don't have the attention span to understand what it takes to do our job. It's best we don't worry about what the public thinks. Sadly it is going to take more skoking holes in the ground for the FAA, management and the public to wake up.

 

[Minnesota_Flyer]

Do you really think Congress cares what we make? If you think they'll give any weight to a word Scully said, you're sorely mistaken.

Congress paraded Scully in front of them for CSPAN because he's the latest face of aviation. In a week or two, they'll forget his name and anything he had to say.

Scully:

Sully:

 

[charlie1017]

Quite frankly, appealing to the general public is an absolute waste of time. If compensation is to be improved, the supply side HAS to be controlled. Right now it's just too easy to become a commercial pilot in America! Right now all you need is money, pass a written exam for which the questions are readily available, and do a few maneuvers! If airlines have a bottomless pool of candidates willing to work for less, why would they raise the pay?

I remember PCL_128 made a good case of MD associations restricting the supply side in the medical industry. Is it too late to do this?

 

[BajtheJino]

Yep. The complexities of our industry are too much for most people to wrap their head around. They don't care about us. They care about point A to point B really really cheap. It is up to us to take care ourselves. No matter what we make Joe 6 pack will probably think we make too much.

I still don't understand why people want the general public involved? You're right, Jose 6 pack doesn't care. They probably do think we make too much money to sit in a chair all day occasionally punching buttons.

It is a colossal waste of time trying to educate the public. They don't have the attention span to understand what it takes to do our job. It's best we don't worry about what the public thinks. Sadly it is going to take more smoking holes in the ground for the FAA, management and the public to wake up.

But low paid dirt bag regionals are contributing to the improving safety record of American aviation. I think people don't care what it takes to do our jobs. A lot of people have jobs that are equally as crappy-more than likely thats why their traveling on a dirt bag regional airplane. I think about the electrician that has to crawl up under a house and handle wiring. What if his apprectice doesn't cut the right CB and he gets electricuted. He needs to make more money. Not to mention think of all the creepy ass spiders under there. House centipedes and all the other crawling monstrosities that live in the shadows of our lives. Besides ALPA will step in and make everything better.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Scully:

Sully:

Thought I was the only one seeing these guys butcher his name

 

[bafanguy]

If you think they'll give any weight to a word Scully said, you're sorely mistaken.
In a week or two, they'll forget his name and anything he had to say.

Bingo !! That's why he needs to stop talking about it now that he's made his point on the subject. If he keeps harping on it, the public will turn on him.

He (and his crew ) did a great thing but if he keeps talking about the plight of airline pilots, something the public couldn't care less about, it'll tarnish his accomplishment.

The public has the disposition of a piranha...and the attention span of a goldfish; i.e., they'll turn on you and devour you but not remember the event 4 seconds later.

I hope Sully et al know this because their "event" is something I want the public to remember in a positive light.

 

[Goonie]

:yeahthat:

The ignorance will continue, so long as they continue to arrive safely and somewhat on time.

Ignorant to what Josh???

What pilots make? Why would/should they care what we make? They have their own jobs to worry about.

I dont understand why we demand "public outcry" about our pay.

Do you fight for everyone elses pay out there?

 

[ready2fly]

Scully:

Sully:

D'OH!!! :buck:

 

[SmitteyB]

Captain Prater was also on Capitol Hill today with Capt. Sullenberger

He wore a black ribbon in remembrance of flight 3407 on his ALPA Lapel Pin.

Ribbon made by...yours truly.

 

[v1valarob]

Captain Prater was also on Capitol Hill today with Capt. Sullenberger

He wore a black ribbon in remembrance of flight 3407 on his ALPA Lapel Pin.

Ribbon made by...yours truly.

ALPA President up at Capitol Hill with a crew from a USAPA airline? Interesting.

I placed my black ribbon behind my crew badge in the plastic. I didnt want any passengers to see it and then freak out about a possible crash or something stupid.

 

[kellwolf]

Bottom line is the public wants the cheapest ticket possible, and they really don't care about the crew experience......until they need someone to save their asses. Then they want the cheapest ticket possible AND a 40 year airline veteran at the helm.

It's like car insurance. People buy the cheapest they can find and they wonder why nothing is covered when they get in an accident.

 

[Toonces]

Bottom line is the public wants the cheapest ticket possible, and they really don't care about the crew experience......until they need someone to save their asses. Then they want the cheapest ticket possible AND a 40 year airline veteran at the helm.

It's like car insurance. People buy the cheapest they can find and they wonder why nothing is covered when they get in an accident.

Exactly. I think our only hope to revive pay in this profession is to have a national seniority list. I like what I am seeing from Alpa so far to address this, however we need to take action. Instead of sending me a retarded magazine each month I wish Alpa would start that whole "taking it back" thing they keep talking about.

 

[BajtheJino]

Exactly. I think our only hope to revive pay in this profession is to have a national seniority list. I like what I am seeing from Alpa so far to address this, however we need to take action. Instead of sending me a retarded magazine each month I wish Alpa would start that whole "taking it back" thing they keep talking about.

They are taking it back. Every time they take the dollars out of your check they're taking back the cost of the magazine.

 

[Seggy]

Instead of sending me a retarded magazine each month I wish Alpa would start that whole "taking it back" thing they keep talking about.

They are taking it back. Every time they take the dollars out of your check they're taking back the cost of the magazine.

Extremely ignorant statements

 

[CFIscare]

Ignorant to what Josh???

What pilots make? Why would/should they care what we make? They have their own jobs to worry about.

I dont understand why we demand "public outcry" about our pay.

Do you fight for everyone elses pay out there?

True, but we don't exaggerate the total compensation of their jobs as much as people, as a whole, do for pilots.

 

[CA Dreaming]

Well, nothing Scully said will amount to anything, IMHO.

The flying public, truly, could not care less how much or how little we make, so long as they get to where they are going (a) safely; (b) cheaply; and (c) on time.

Outside of that, they don't care.

I agree with most people on here that the public doesn't care about our pay and working conditions. However, it is important to get that information out there, especially to Congress. Sully is in the unique position to be our spokesman and I truly appreciate his effort.

Three things to keep in mind:

1.) A lot of airlines are entering into Section 6 negotiations right now, or already in them. I know that during United's last regular contract negotiations around 2000 (not in bankruptcy) the company was very vocal about putting out press releases saying pilots are paid over $250K and don't deserve a pay raise. Well, maybe 100 pilots at UAL made that out of 10,000 pilots. New F/O's made less than $30K. I read plenty of letters to the editor in newspapers saying that pilots are whiny and paid too much. The general public to this day still thinks we make a boatload of money, and most people are shocked when I tell them how little I make. As we enter into or continue with contract negotiations, it is important that the public knows what really is going on before the airlines start their attacks in the media against us.

2.) Around 2002-2003 when most of the legacy airlines were in bankruptcy and negotiating new contracts under duress, the airlines were still spreading a misinformation campaign in the newspapers. I remember being on vacation in Mexico and got into a heated argument with another patron at the resort. This person was from Atlanta and was upset that Delta pilots were threatening to strike in the next week. He couldn't understand why people that made so much money would strike over a small pay decrease. I tried to explain to him that those pilots would be losing 40% of their salary. He didn't want to listen. When I asked him if he lost 40% of his salary would he still be able to keep his house? He walked away and wouldn't talk about it any further. (He was a jerk.)

3.) Sully is going about this exactly the right way. He is emphasizing safety and experience. As the poster I quoted above said, the flying public only cares about safety, cheap flights, and on-time performance. If this industry doesn't change soon, I would not be surprised to see ab-initio training at the majors in 20 years. Do you really want a captain with 2,000 hours and an F/O with 350 hours flying you around in a 757? I'll be honest, I got into this industry 20 years ago because of the high pay, great pension, great benefits, and the love of flying. Now all I have left is the love of flying. I certainly would not choose this profession now if I was a teenager trying to figure out what to do with my life. As Sully said, I certainly would not encourage my kids to follow my footsteps. After two furloughs in the last 9 years, the previous one lasting 5 1/2 years, I'm almost ready to throw in the towel. Alas, I am a fool and love flying too much.

Believe it or not, it is important what the public thinks. I know they can't do anything to help us and won't, but they can't keep thinking we all get paid $250K and work 80 hours a month. When the airlines put out their smear campaigns against us, they never bother to mention that those 80 hours are flight hours only and we usually work 10-12 hours a day to get paid for 6. If public opinion is not important, why do you think the airlines make sure the public is misinformed about our pay and working conditions during contract negotiations? Who do you think writes letters of protest to their Congressmen to stop their local airline pilots from striking?

Do you really think Congress has a better grasp on our working conditions than the general public?

A final point to keep in mind is that President Obama will be appointing members to the National Mediation Board which will most likely make it a more labor friendly board. That is extremely important to all airline pilots entering into or continuing contract negotiations to get industry leading contracts. A labor friendly NMB will allow us the right to strike to get the contract we deserve. The more information that is out there to Congress and President Obama will help us achieve our goals.

Just my two cents...

 

[BajtheJino]

Extremely ignorant statements

Oh, gosh! Oh, gosh! I'm sorry.

 

[CrippleHawk]

I agree with most people on here that the public doesn't care about our pay and working conditions. However, it is important to get that information out there, especially to Congress. Sully is in the unique position to be our spokesman and I truly appreciate his effort.

Three things to keep in mind:

1.) A lot of airlines are entering into Section 6 negotiations right now, or already in them. I know that during United's last regular contract negotiations around 2000 (not in bankruptcy) the company was very vocal about putting out press releases saying pilots are paid over $250K and don't deserve a pay raise. Well, maybe 100 pilots at UAL made that out of 10,000 pilots. New F/O's made less than $30K. I read plenty of letters to the editor in newspapers saying that pilots are whiny and paid too much. The general public to this day still thinks we make a boatload of money, and most people are shocked when I tell them how little I make. As we enter into or continue with contract negotiations, it is important that the public knows what really is going on before the airlines start their attacks in the media against us.

2.) Around 2002-2003 when most of the legacy airlines were in bankruptcy and negotiating new contracts under duress, the airlines were still spreading a misinformation campaign in the newspapers. I remember being on vacation in Mexico and got into a heated argument with another patron at the resort. This person was from Atlanta and was upset that Delta pilots were threatening to strike in the next week. He couldn't understand why people that made so much money would strike over a small pay decrease. I tried to explain to him that those pilots would be losing 40% of their salary. He didn't want to listen. When I asked him if he lost 40% of his salary would he still be able to keep his house? He walked away and wouldn't talk about it any further. (He was a jerk.)

3.) Sully is going about this exactly the right way. He is emphasizing safety and experience. As the poster I quoted above said, the flying public only cares about safety, cheap flights, and on-time performance. If this industry doesn't change soon, I would not be surprised to see ab-initio training at the majors in 20 years. Do you really want a captain with 2,000 hours and an F/O with 350 hours flying you around in a 757? I'll be honest, I got into this industry 20 years ago because of the high pay, great pension, great benefits, and the love of flying. Now all I have left is the love of flying. I certainly would not choose this profession now if I was a teenager trying to figure out what to do with my life. As Sully said, I certainly would not encourage my kids to follow my footsteps. After two furloughs in the last 9 years, the previous one lasting 5 1/2 years, I'm almost ready to throw in the towel. Alas, I am a fool and love flying too much.

Believe it or not, it is important what the public thinks. I know they can't do anything to help us and won't, but they can't keep thinking we all get paid $250K and work 80 hours a month. When the airlines put out their smear campaigns against us, they never bother to mention that those 80 hours are flight hours only and we usually work 10-12 hours a day to get paid for 6. If public opinion is not important, why do you think the airlines make sure the public is misinformed about our pay and working conditions during contract negotiations? Who do you think writes letters of protest to their Congressmen to stop their local airline pilots from striking?

Do you really think Congress has a better grasp on our working conditions than the general public?

A final point to keep in mind is that President Obama will be appointing members to the National Mediation Board which will most likely make it a more labor friendly board. That is extremely important to all airline pilots entering into or continuing contract negotiations to get industry leading contracts. A labor friendly NMB will allow us the right to strike to get the contract we deserve. The more information that is out there to Congress and President Obama will help us achieve our goals.

Just my two cents...

Sadly you are right. When I tell my non aviation friends that FOs make
$18,000 a year (starting pay). They were in shock, they thought I meant $18000 a month! Plus when I told them that I work for MESA they have no idea what MESA is. (Heck it was not until 2003 thst I realized that the express flights were done by regional airlines )

 

[dbrault17]

And still everyone shows up at the gate, climbs in the cockpit and off they go. Talk is cheap. The only way I think things will change is...

1. The supply of pilots drastically reduces. Everyone can point to the recent pilot shortage but guess what happened, the minimums were lowered to a mere 90 days experience (if you went to schools like ATP). There was no change in pay or work rules to attract better qualified pilots. In fact a huge amount of flying was outsourced to lower paying regional jobs during this so called pilot shortage. Now look at the industry. How many of us are furloughed? How many of us are willing to go to low paying operators just stay in the cockpit so that one day they can run off to the majors? While a commercial ticket only takes 90 days of training to accomplish and lines wrapped around the door to get into these schools and jobs than there will always be downward pressure on pilot compensation.

2. The unions come together and artificially lower the supply of pilots by NOT SHOWING UP FOR A JOB THAT PAYS JACK CRAP! This is how unions have been so successful in any industry. The whole workforce worked as a team and did not allow the company to produce by not showing up to work until the demands were met. Its that simple. A resignation letter from every pilot flying on the same day will skyrocket compensation within a matter of weeks (if not days).

Since I dont ever see this happening, Im out. Back to school I go this summer.

 

[DavCo]

Well, nothing Scully said will amount to anything, IMHO.

The flying public, truly, could not care less how much or how little we make, so long as they get to where they are going (a) safely; (b) cheaply; and (c) on time.

Outside of that, they don't care.

Unfortunately, this is true. Everyone is looking out for number one. But, as we have seen recently, over-paid management is becoming a bigger issue (i.e. the bank executives and there jets). So in terms of creating an ad or creating something else for the flying public to get there hands on, we might just wanna aim at management (i.e. GlennTilton.com). I don't think people are all that sympathetic to pilots now-a-days because all they have heard from us is bitching (and rightfully so) and I think unless we get there attention another way, like how Sully is heroically trying to do, our words will fall on deaf ears.