Study tips!

[killbilly]

I was ridiculously over-prepared for the multi-add-on - it was one of the easiest, most laid-back checkrides I've ever done.

Understand - don't just spit out the textbook answers - but understand what Vmc is, what the various factors are that affect it, and what your inputs do to it.

My chief AND the DPE were both really big on the performance evaluation, accel-stop and accel-go and thinking about the actual scenario - you might brief different takeoffs for sudden OEI at different airports based on runway, Wx, terrain, etc....for example, I'm going to approach an engine loss after takeoff a little bit differently at MRB vs. JYO or FDK. It depends on the situation. You have to think about that part.

DM me if you want to talk about some of this stuff.

 

[dustoff17]

@SteveC is dead on….understand your answer!

If you answer a question but don’t understand the answer or the related system, you can quickly dig a DEEP hole. If you answer and then you nail the follow-on questions, your evaluator will move on to the flying.

I literally had two direct questions on my ME ATP, one question had a couple of related, systems knowledge queries directly related to my answer and the other’s answer was followed up with, ”Tell me why.”

I was in the middle of the “why” answer when the examiner interrupted me by saying, “Let’s go fly!”

I use flash cards and I write out the questions. I’ll print several copies of the question list and write out the answers. I’ll go through every page until I get ALL the answers correct. It’s a lot of extra effort but it has paid off for me.

 

[JEP]

Currently in the process of studying for my multi-engine add-on for next next month. All of us being pilots at different aspects of our careers, we've all had to study to graduate. I wanted to get some feed back about how everyone studies/study tips.

The place that I'm going sent me a packet with the 60 questions that will be asked during my oral. But also an overview and procedures of all the multi maneuvers that we will fly during the checkride. The procedures overview can be chair flown with a cockpit poster, so not really too worried about all of that. But what about the 60 questions? Well, it's mostly rote memorization, but I'm really wondering if I'm making it harder on myself. And if I'm out here like Kash Doll an Doin' Too Much.

How I'm currently studying:

I'm rewriting all the questions and answers down on a Microsoft Word document from the original. Writing the questions down seems to really help me commit it to memory, but its time consuming. Is this a good method? Is there a better, faster why to retain rote knowledge? What works for you, what doesn't? I'm all ears for suggestions. Thanks in advance.

If you highlight everything, is anything highlighted?

As for study tips, stay off of FB and JC..... ;-)

And if it hasn't been said: Don't answer a question that isn't asked.....

 

[dustoff17]

If you highlight everything, is anything highlighted?

As for study tips, stay off of FB and JC..... ;-)

And if it hasn't been said: Don't answer a question that isn't asked.....

Yes, THIS!! I forgot this one!!

If the examiner asks you if you know what type of engines are on the plane your answer should be, “Yes!”

Do you know the Vma with full flaps? “Yes”

If the examiner wants to know more, they WILL ask!!!

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

All. Thank for your replies. @SteveC was right, everyone learns different. My methods of rewriting and also coving up the answer and repeating the answer back was working for me. But like I stated in the original post it seemed like it was taking too long to get it down. But then I had to chill a bit. I can be kinda anal Like @killbilly I tend to want to be over prepared and maybe overthink for test. In this case I was too focused on memorizing the answers verbatim as they were written on the screenshotted page in the original post and I was getting super frustrated. Overthinking again. Since then like @milleR said I've been shortening the answer written to just the quick important bits and the recall has been better.

The owner of the plane and the school kept stressing in conversations and emails that I memorize the 60 questions and the procedures for all maneuvers cold. He said that is the no.#1 reason that people fail. Having not been in the plane yet from what I've seen/read of the maneuvers. They seem pretty straightforward. Stalls, slow flight, steep turns, emergency descents all which I did during CSEL (not getting cocky though and still chair flying). So it sounds like you're just doing those same maneuvers again, but in a multi-engine aircraft. Never shut an engine down in-flight though or done a single engine ILS. In fact I did my instrument in a G-1000 equipped plane. So have no clue how to fly an ILS approach in a six pack equipped plane. Going to have to go to KGEU and rent a plane with an instructor, or use the Redbird and get some training.

 

[dustoff17]

All. Thank for your replies. @SteveC was right, everyone learns different. My methods of rewriting and also coving up the answer and repeating the answer back was working for me. But like I stated in the original post it seemed like it was taking too long to get it down. But then I had to chill a bit. I can be kinda anal Like @killbilly I tend to want to be over prepared and maybe overthink for test. In this case I was too focused on memorizing the answers verbatim as they were written on the screenshotted page in the original post and I was getting super frustrated. Overthinking again. Since then like @milleR said I've been shortening the answer written to just the quick important bits and the recall has been better.

The owner of the plane and the school kept stressing in conversations and emails that I memorize the 60 questions and the procedures for all maneuvers cold. He said that is the no.#1 reason that people fail. Having not been in the plane yet from what I've seen/read of the maneuvers. They seem pretty straightforward. Stalls, slow flight, steep turns, emergency descents all which I did during CSEL (not getting cocky though and still chair flying). So it sounds like you're just doing those same maneuvers again, but in a multi-engine aircraft. Never shut an engine down in-flight though or done a single engine ILS. In fact I did my instrument in a G-1000 equipped plane. So have no clue how to fly an ILS approach in a six pack equipped plane. Going to have to go to KGEU and rent a plane with an instructor, or use the Redbird and get some training.

I think YOU have the choice as far as which approach you fly; so if you're comfortable with RNAV, fly it. I hadn't used RNAV approaches when I took my ATP so I opted for an NDB approach...go with what you know

 

[A300Capt]

And if it hasn't been said: Don't answer a question that isn't asked.....

This can’t be emphasized enough! I’ve seen too many folks dig themselves into a hole or back themselves into a corner trying to over answer a relatively simple question. Sometimes just a “yes” or “no” suffices. It usually goes south after the examiner says something along the lines of, “You sure about that…?” The student probably answered the question correctly in the first sentence. It was probably the next talking paragraph that sent them down the proverbial rabbit hole.

My A300 type back in 2001 consisted of a 5 hour oral with the FAA sitting in and observing. The checkairman began with the upper left corner of overhead..”Bill, tell me about the IRS’s”. Me..”The Bus has them”. After a pause the checkairman looked up from his paperwork (with the Fed intently looking on at that point) and said..”Is that it?” I responded..”What exactly would you like to know..?” And that’s how it went the rest of the day.

Never offer any more than required to answer the question with as few words as possible. Also, during the checkride, assume everything in the airplane’s systems or automation, iPad or computer works unless it’s MEL’ed, the examiner tells you it’s simulated inop or they fail it.

I had a B757 student hand fly his entire type ride because the examiner failed the autopilot he called for after takeoff. He passed but after the ride the examiner asked him why he “chose” to hand fly the rest of the ride? He said basically that since you (the examiner) failed my autopilot I assumed you wanted me to hand fly. The examiner told him he had two other autopilots in perfect working condition he could have chosen….duh! Point being…don’t get tunnel vision. Never stop fighting and thinking “What else can I do..?” Try alternative backup systems (if you have them) until told not to.

Stay focused. Trust me, everybody involved wants you to do well and pass. Failing creates more paperwork for everyone and nobody likes that.

Good luck!

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

I think YOU have the choice as far as which approach you fly; so if you're comfortable with RNAV, fly it. I hadn't used RNAV approaches when I took my ATP so I opted for an NDB approach...go with what you know

It's a 1957 PA23 and a six pack. So no RNAV. I'm guessing having never flown an ILS on a six pack equipped plane, once you tune in the ILS freq. the horizonal needle centers. Then when you hit the glideslope the vertical needle. Eventually centers when you're on the localizer/glideslope. If the needle is up at the top, you're too low. If its on the bottom, you're too high. If centered, you're juuuuuust, right!

 

[killbilly]

The owner of the plane and the school kept stressing in conversations and emails that I memorize the 60 questions and the procedures for all maneuvers cold. He said that is the no.#1 reason that people fail. Having not been in the plane yet from what I've seen/read of the maneuvers. They seem pretty straightforward.

Okay - now that I've been flight instructing for a while, I know exactly why he puts that emphasis on memorizing the maneuvers.

And you know what? He's right.

The reason he does this (and the reason a lot of flight schools - mine included) do this is to pre-emptively establish a baseline for you to work from as you learn the airplane. If you know the procedures cold, then you have a reasonable expectation of not spending your first few hours in the plane perpetually surprised.

This does not mean you should be a procedure robot.

It will, however, shorten your path of learning, and you will gain feel for the airplane more quickly because you already have a general idea of what the next step is.

 

[mattc206]

Lots of good points here, especially about things that are rote learning and "tell me about this" type of questions.

I found for the rote stuff- weights/speeds/limitations/emergencies, etc that flash cards whether physical paper or in an app, work wonders- watching TV? go thru the flash cards for a few minutes , waiting for dinner? go thru a few cards.

As for the "tell me about this" type of stuff, I found reading the material as if I had to explain it to someone with no knowledge works, keeping in mind the points made about not digging yourself a hole in answering questions. Obviously not applicable to every type of question but I found reading the same subject in a different way in different books or watching different forms of media helped cementing a concept. The way one medium explains or shows a concept may be different than another resource, and one may "click" more than the other in understanding things.

 

[MikeD]

“I’m a drop of oil, where exactly do I go from the oil tank, all the way through the engine and back?”

 

[NovemberEcho]

“I’m a drop of oil, where exactly do I go from the oil tank, all the way through the engine and back?”

“if I launch a rocket from this spot right here, and it goes straight up, whose airspace does it hit along the way?”

 

[Roger Roger]

Key systems concepts that will keep coming up as you go forward from here, that you’ll want to understand
-mechanical governor (even electronically controlled engines often have one built deep in as a fail-safe in case of over speed)
-landing gear safety and indication systems (the details will be different but fundamentally most RG airplanes share a lot of the same basic functionality)
-electrical system normal ops and malfunctions in a multi-generator (or alternator) aircraft. Not like, what does every little relay do but, what are indications of a generator issue, how can you reset it, why does the checklist have you take the steps it does, etc

Any other time than immediately after takeoff you have some time to work a problem, so unless it’s explicitly a memory item procedure (like a fire) slow down, get the airplane under control (without an autopilot that probably just means trimmed out) and pull out the checklist. Especially in these older airplanes with less robust and intuitive systems ninja hands can make things exponentially worse for you, and as you advance in your career you’ll be expected to rely less and less on memory and more and more on a checklist/QRH and another crew member

 

[dustoff17]

It's a 1957 PA23 and a six pack. So no RNAV. I'm guessing having never flown an ILS on a six pack equipped plane, once you tune in the ILS freq. the horizonal needle centers. Then when you hit the glideslope the vertical needle. Eventually centers when you're on the localizer/glideslope. If the needle is up at the top, you're too low. If its on the bottom, you're too high. If centered, you're juuuuuust, right!

Yeah, I think that’s the way my autopilot flies one……..

 

[turbojet28]

It's a 1957 PA23 and a six pack. So no RNAV. I'm guessing having never flown an ILS on a six pack equipped plane, once you tune in the ILS freq. the horizonal needle centers. Then when you hit the glideslope the vertical needle. Eventually centers when you're on the localizer/glideslope. If the needle is up at the top, you're too low. If its on the bottom, you're too high. If centered, you're juuuuuust, right!

Are you by chance doing this training in the state of MI? If you are doing this training with the guy that I think you are, he is an awesome guy and a great instructor. He will train you well.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Are you by chance doing this training in the state of MI? If you are doing this training with the guy that I think you are, he is an awesome guy and a great instructor. He will train you well.

Tom Brady, yes.

 

[ClearedForOption]

“I’m a drop of oil, where exactly do I go from the oil tank, all the way through the engine and back?”

Well, since I have free will, I think that I've been working too hard lately running in circles - I'm just gonna call out fatigued and stay right here in the oil tank. Let the other oil drops do the work for awhile.

In all seriousness, I'd do exactly what the instructor tells you. Everything I've read thus far is excellent advice, depending on the style of learner you are. I've done a bit of every technique listed from PPL checkrides, CFI, type ratings at multiple carriers. I've made the flash cards, read memory items to myself and played them over, scripted questions, etc. I remember having a sheet not unlike what you have for the CRJ, walking around Cinci near the old Comair sim building, going over flows, procedures, and memory items. These days I have a systems book and systems slides used as memory aids. I'm a big fan of clicking through powerpoint slides with the info. But that's just what I'm used to right now.

Pick and choose. Find something that works for you. It sounds like the instructor is kicking the rudder pedal for you here and saying - (hint, hint) memorize this stuff so you can focus on the manuvers and procedures flying part. Do as much of the rote stuff as you can before hand.

My multi-add on was much like this... memorize a book. Here's the basic Q's to expect. Here's the stuff from the PTS... learn all of this before you show up and then it was 2 day of intensive flying and the checkride.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

In all seriousness, I'd do exactly what the instructor tells you.

But what if I want to argue with the ACP during a checkride about an engine fire???

Seriously though I appreciate the advice, it was good advice.

 

[Avalon781ML]

I use a combo of flash cards and recording myself asking the question… waiting 5-10 seconds… and then answering the question…. You can record it on your phone and then just pop earbuds in and go through the questions while your doing the most mundane of tasks. If you find that you can answer the questions easily try juggling ( or some sort of task that requires your attention) while listening and answering the questions.
Works for this former welder….

 

[mikecweb]

It's a 1957 PA23 and a six pack. So no RNAV. I'm guessing having never flown an ILS on a six pack equipped plane, once you tune in the ILS freq. the horizonal needle centers. Then when you hit the glideslope the vertical needle. Eventually centers when you're on the localizer/glideslope. If the needle is up at the top, you're too low. If its on the bottom, you're too high. If centered, you're juuuuuust, right!

Play Microsoft flight sim or whatever the kids are playing these days. Seriously the best instrument trainer for the money.