Student fails checkride, WWYD?
- Thread starter mshunter
- Start date
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
I am also confused as to why the student actually failed. IIRC the airspeed tolerance for a short field landing is +5/-0 so that may be what did it. On the other hand, if he failed because he went around once, I'd applaud him for that. As you well know, better to go around on a short runway and try again than to roll off the end.
You have to get out more or keep company with some more honest people.
<---- Here: Now you've "met" one person who admits fault to both your scenarios.
APACHEpilot
New Member
Was the examiner using scenario based questions on the landing stating that the go-around was not an option ? Other than that and that would be very very rare. What could the examiner failed him on not maintaining crosswind correction and directional control ?
I've had an examiner say to me, you only have one chance or your busted. But it sounds like the student used really good judgment for the real world and after all isn't that what you train student pilots for, to operate in the real world. Most students would have continued on with the approach and landed halfway down the runway and would have busted anyway. Don't get it ?
I've had an examiner say to me, you only have one chance or your busted. But it sounds like the student used really good judgment for the real world and after all isn't that what you train student pilots for, to operate in the real world. Most students would have continued on with the approach and landed halfway down the runway and would have busted anyway. Don't get it ?
Inverted25
Well-Known Member
On my commercial ride when I did the power off 180 the examiner told me if you dont land it you fail. But thats the only time I have ever had that happen.
Understand this........This isn't some half cocked story. This is comming from the student/instructor/instructor who was there during the de-brief. We are a very well respected flight school in our area, and throughout the IAC community, as well as around the world. Remember Vicki Cruse, she trained/worked here. Ever heard of Rich Stowell, this is his winter home.
The examiner did not even know the short field approach speed. How is one supposed to give an accurate exam, if they don't know what +10/-5 is based on. How is one supposed to do a proper exam if they are afraid to do a full stall on a PPL ride? How is one supposed to do a proper exam, if they take the controls from a prior briefed "You are the PIC, I will only help in an emergency."
I don't think some are seeing my point in not just one flaw of the ride, but the many, many breakdowns in how a proper checkride is supposed to go, and the examiners lack of respect for the procedures the FAA has set forth to ensure a standardized and fair examination process.
PeterPilot
New Member
Now that the school has filled itself with moral outrage, are they going to do anything?
SoCalFlyer2
Well-Known Member
An examiner can fail you for whatever he wants. Even if you do everything right and you piss him off, believe me... he'll find a way to bust you. I know, I know "that's not fair!" or "they cant' do that!". What are you gonna do about it? Find a new examiner.
I know the PTS specifies an approach speed for short field landings but I don't think they really give a crap about that. I've had examiners give students multiple landings attempts to get it right and others failed on the first time. Also, depends on the type of checkride. Private pilot? Lots of leeway... comm/multi, tighter standards.
I know the PTS specifies an approach speed for short field landings but I don't think they really give a crap about that. I've had examiners give students multiple landings attempts to get it right and others failed on the first time. Also, depends on the type of checkride. Private pilot? Lots of leeway... comm/multi, tighter standards.
This was yesterday, and those of us who were there, will not be useing his services again. Those who weren't there I am not sure of...
This isn't my first rodeo. I know that an examiner can find something to bust you on, in any checkride if they want to. This is not an issue of this. I guess you don't see the breakdown of upholding the PTS. If you elect to do a go-around, on a PPL checkride, because the short field landing doesn't look right, there is no-where in the PTS that says it's a bust. As well, the examiner should not have taken the airplane from him. He is not the PIC, which is clearly stated in the PTS, and is also discussed (or atleast should be) in advance of flying the airplane.
Edit: It was his 1st attempt at a landing during the whole checkride. The wind was blowing at about 10-12kts, and he was a little long on final. Again, not a bustable thing. And thats not what he busted for. He busted for making a safe decision. What do we teach our students from day 1? If it doesn't look right, or feel right, go-around and try it again.
jrh
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat:
I can't offer much advice until I know what's on the official notice of disapproval.
I can't remember exactly, but it was the more than one thing to cover the DPE's butt. But the debrief consisted of the 60kts with full flaps, and deciding on a go around was the dis-sat reason.
Like I said, not my student, I only had a brief look at the pink slip, and it's the only one I have ever seen.
And I'm not sure why it matters?
jrh
Well-Known Member
I can't remember exactly, but it was the more than one thing to cover the DPE's butt. But the debrief consisted of the 60kts with full flaps, and deciding on a go around was the dis-sat reason.
Like I said, not my student, I only had a brief look at the pink slip, and it's the only one I have ever seen.
And I'm not sure why it matters?
Well, here's how I deal with these types of situations...
I don't see any reason to talk to the DPE because it sounds like everybody (applicant/instructor/DPE) talked during the debrief. Talking again would be redundant. What's said is said.
I don't see any reason to talk to the FSDO, because this isn't a case of something going absolutely, completely, absurdly wrong (like the 8 hour long private pilot checkride that was discussed here a while ago). Talking to the FSDO would only turn in to a "his word against his word" pissing match and probably wouldn't accomplish much.
I wouldn't use the DPE in the future. I wouldn't go on any big crusade to put the DPE out of business, or ban him from the flight school, or anything like that, but I wouldn't personally sign any of my clients off to take a checkride with him. There's no point to sending applicants to a DPE with questionable judgment. It doesn't matter what happened in this situation, who was right and who was wrong...if you don't trust the DPE, you don't trust him. If I don't like you, I'm not going to send applicants to you. Simple as that.
Here:
To help you measure.
I love it when you get fired up man, so damn funny.On topic: I would have your chief review the pink slip and call based on questions from that. I also like the advice mentioned earlier (to lazy to scroll back and see who) about asking the FSDO to do the ride with him. Of course I wouldn't do this until after step one by the chief CFI.
I wouldn't sweep it under the rug and just stop using him though, I would follow up. A half an hour of extra effort here could save a great deal of headache with other potential pilots in your area, if any of this information is accurate at least.
Here:
To help you measure.
:rotfl:
I didn't care for you much at first. But man how you've grown on me. Similar personalities usually tend to but heads. And now that thats over, I have more respect for you than some others here, because you stand up for what you think is right.......
BTW, that ruler isn't long enough
