Steam gauges

drunkenbeagle said:
Why? If you are proficient enough to get an instrument rating, I don't see what is so difficult about flying an ILS with either setup. I think that conventional gauges are somewhat more likely to be in less-than-standard locations, but otherwise, if you are a reasonably proficient pilot, you shouldn't be any more likely to kill yourself either way.

My flying is about equally split between Glass-do-everything panel / Basic IFR panel / Legal minimum VFR panel. I prefer the Legal Minimum setup personally - less stuff to break and/or distract me.

The reality of pilot employment right now: If you are in the situation where you care about the answer to this question, you should probably not get used to flying with the computer gizmos. I routinely fly a high performance single that has no attitude indicator, turn coordinator, vertical speed indicator, heading indicator, manifold pressure gauge, stall warning horn, VOR, NDB, or cup holder. Guess which I miss most in the air?
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Rest assured, I don't care. /A, /U or /ZOMGADVANCEDRNAVDONTHAVETOPUTDOWNTHEPAPER.

There are folks aplenty running around out there with instrument ratings, though, who can't do it.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Oh please, that's a jet.

The fact that you can get an instrument rating in either a steam or a glass airplane, then hop into the opposite and legally fly it to 200-1/2 speaks volumes about our obsolete pilot certification system.

(Insurance may protest, but that's another story.)
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I don't have as big of a problem with this as I do the fact that you can get an IFR rating and never experience actual. There should be endorsements involved.


The glass cockpit is how flight schools market to parents. The g1000 sells itself. I think a student should get experience in both and ideally, after instructing for a few years, be proficient in both.
 
I'm not sure this has been mentioned, and just in case anybody isn't in the know because they've been out of the GA game for a while (Derg), Cessna isn't making steam gauge aircraft anymore. While it's easy to say "Just go rent a clapped out 152 like I did in the early 90's," the last Cessna 152 rolled off the assembly line in 1985, making the YOUNGEST aircraft 28 years old.

Glass is the future because it's cheaper to produce. When you consider that a new Cessna 172 will run you $280,000 base, it's not hard to put $30,000 worth of avionics that need minimal support.
 
Other manufactures are making some steam, so it's not a total loss cause. Experience in both would benefit pilots greatly. TWP I've never understood why one can get a instrument rating without actual. Seems that would also help out a student pilot. The first time I touched a cloud was years after getting my instrument rating and in training at a cargo operator.
 
z987k said:
If you've younger than idk... 40? Going from steam to glass should take you about 2 hours in the cockpit on the ground with the GPU hooked up so you can play with the thing. Any more and you probably suck at computers. Whenever I see 'glass cockpit experience" on a job posting it tells me the guy who wrote it is 50+ years old or in HR and has no idea what they're talking about.
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Oh hell, if it's avidyne, 20 seconds! :D
 
z987k said:
If you've younger than idk... 40? Going from steam to glass should take you about 2 hours in the cockpit on the ground with the GPU hooked up so you can play with the thing. Any more and you probably suck at computers. Whenever I see 'glass cockpit experience" on a job posting it tells me the guy who wrote it is 50+ years old or in HR and has no idea what they're talking about.
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Read that, and was flashing back to when we had to go through the FAA's Capstone training, there was a definite line down the room of the younger guys that got it in 20 minutes and the old guys who ten years later still don't really know how to use it. Roger Roger
For all the wonders that our EFIS can do, I personally would not do the flying we do with out the steam backups in the panel. I had a Eclipse owner park next to me one day and he wanted to brag about his machine so I looked in and saw 3 big Star Trek panels and a whiskey compass, and just simply asked "What happens when the power goes out?" "It's not supposed to do that" was his reply. He seemed quite sure that the universe would never conspire against such a wondrous machine an that any kind of electrical fault was just out of the question. I am pretty sure the universe is out to get me, so I like backups for my backups and like the EFIS/Steam combo, oh and I still keep my 296 handy too.

When it comes to training, all of the fundamental principals of steam flying can still be taught with a glass system, just need to forgo jumping straight into how to use the GPS direct button and to fly using raw nav data only, no overlays for help either. Better yet just pull the GPS breaker and it doesn't get pushed back in until it is earned.
 
Learned on Steam and Glass. Have not flown IMC/Simulated Instrument with steam, but I have a fair amount of VFR steam gauge time. I have a large portion G1000 time. Both are good to know and have experience and working knowledge of.
 
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