State of hiring for the mediocre.

[TexasFlyer]

That is me. The mediocre. Why mediocre. Well. When you iny flown 55 hours in the last 7 years and that being in a DA40, that's mediocre. Your 5000TT and 2000 121 time is, well, long ago ...

So what's the state of the industry for mediocre?

1) CJO from Envoy 2 months ago as Direct Entry Captain, no start date yet.

2) CJO from Piedmont as Direct Entry Captain, but no start date anymore due to hiring freeze.

3) CJO from PSA with August start date as Experienced FO (Capt hiring on hold) but at 7 years longevity (3 weeks vacation and 180 per hour).

4) Endevour interview results pending.

5) CJO from NJM as CJ3 PIC, 8/6 schedule with an August start date.

6) CJO from another small 135 operator on Citation Bravo as PIC, not interested as it's on call with few hard days off.

7). CJO from Silver on ATR as FO with accelerated upgrade to PIC, Sept start date.

And now. Mediocre now has to decide what to do! The hiring market is still holding up, even if it has slowed a bit and things are looking a bit uneasy economically and at some 135s and 121s.
And as for choices, Mr Mediocre is coming off a near 7 year recovery from a sleep disorder (as those that follow me know), these are tough decisions. Commute at a regional where the commute is ugly. Or steady schedule making half the pay at a 135 that may work ne 14 hours nonstop all 8 days on the road, but know that comes with a decent amount of time off at my real home when not faced wirh an ugly commute with a no seniority reserve schedule. Grateful, but have to pick wisely. And FAA has me submitting a report on my flying plans and how I will be able to be certain my sleep issues do not resurface. That's part of my special issu

 

[drunkenbeagle]

That is me. The mediocre. Why mediocre. Well. When you iny flown 55 hours in the last 7 years and that being in a DA40, that's mediocre. Your 5000TT and 2000 121 time is, well, long ago ...

So, 6 for 7 so far, with one still pending? Might be hope for me yet.

I vote Silver, since tropical islands are always are better than not tropical islands. You aren't going to get rich at any of them, so you might as well enjoy it. I've never flown for any of them, all I can vouch for is having flown into pretty much everywhere Silver goes, and they are all places where you won't freeze to death. Economically, Silver competes with charters, so will probably do better than most if things get slower. Our choices here are them, or a PC-12, or convincing me or my friends to take a few days off. And you probably won't get another chance to do that type of flying again when bigger and better things happen.

Just remember the beagle when he is asking for a job in 6 months

 

[Crockrocket94]

Ah, getting back into it?

Where are you residing these days? NVM, saw your other thread from April.

How have we not met up? I live over in PH.

 

[DE727UPS]

Looks like you're really at three and have a choice between two regionals and a big 135 with a contract. I don't know about any of them but you just have to weigh which is best for career progression and the commute. PSA would be the best money and look best on a resume, I'm thinking. Wonder how fast you'd move up the list and get a better schedule as an F/O? Silver sounds like way more fun but it's not as good of a stepping stone. Might be fun to make a move for, though, and not commute. Netjets is left seat, probably at least the same money, and a better schedule for the commute. Personally, I'm more of an airline guy, so I would have avoided that but it seems like have a lot going for it and the are union with a contract. I'd try to find out more about QOL and duty days. As to the sleeping thing and the FAA. There might not be any 121 or 135 job that's going to work if you have a relapse or whatever. If you think that's behind you I'd do the minimum to check the squares with the FAA and forget about it. If you can't keep the feds happy and still have an airline job then you'll have to look at something else. Maybe a decent 91 where you don't work as much. Hard to get in to unless you know someone and the pay upside isn't there but maybe you could find something close to home. Even in a King Air.

As an aside, I had a friend at Brown retire and jump right into PSA street Capt with the bonuses and all. He lasted two weeks after IOE. Too much work for a retirement side gig. He was thinking he could stick it out a couple years but it wasn't as much fun as he thought it would be.

 

[DE727UPS]

Just saw your other post about NJM. Thought it was netjets. Never heard of NJM.

 

[TexasFlyer]

Ah, getting back into it?

Where are you residing these days? NVM, saw your other thread from April.

How have we not met up? I live over in PH.

Sounds like we should meet up before I go jet setting away somewhere next month!

 

[TexasFlyer]

Looks like you're really at three and have a choice between two regionals and a big 135 with a contract. I don't know about any of them but you just have to weigh which is best for career progression and the commute. PSA would be the best money and look best on a resume, I'm thinking. Wonder how fast you'd move up the list and get a better schedule as an F/O? Silver sounds like way more fun but it's not as good of a stepping stone. Might be fun to make a move for, though, and not commute. Netjets is left seat, probably at least the same money, and a better schedule for the commute. Personally, I'm more of an airline guy, so I would have avoided that but it seems like have a lot going for it and the are union with a contract. I'd try to find out more about QOL and duty days. As to the sleeping thing and the FAA. There might not be any 121 or 135 job that's going to work if you have a relapse or whatever. If you think that's behind you I'd do the minimum to check the squares with the FAA and forget about it. If you can't keep the feds happy and still have an airline job then you'll have to look at something else. Maybe a decent 91 where you don't work as much. Hard to get in to unless you know someone and the pay upside isn't there but maybe you could find something close to home. Even in a King Air.

As an aside, I had a friend at Brown retire and jump right into PSA street Capt with the bonuses and all. He lasted two weeks after IOE. Too much work for a retirement side gig. He was thinking he could stick it out a couple years but it wasn't as much fun as he thought it would be.

If I return to PSA it is with 7 years longevity. It's where I was up until my loss of medical. Hence why the pay is so much and that comes with extra retirement and vacation etc. Just no seniority.

 

[ClearedForOption]

I'd go with the DEC gig that is the smallest poop sandwich with the most toppings... pay, easiest commute, closest base to home, potential flow, etc... and then grind and network like you are selling Ronco and move on as soon as you can.

No matter what you choose, it's not going to be ideal. So take your best guess at the shortest path to the job you want.

Also, get better advice than the advice from a bunch of pilots who have the golden handcuffs, etc. Like a career counselor or something - someone unemotional about the whole thing. Honestly, you need more data about the state of the industry, future hiring, flow times, etc.

The thing about my career, even though I didn't land where I was expecting to (or wanted to, really...), my 'forever' airline is a great place to work. I was never comfortable - at all - while I was in the apprentice/journeyman stage of my career. I want to say it was by design, which it was a bit, but it was also a happy accident. It's very easy to become a 'lifer' with a little bit of QOL and seniority. Bodies at rest tend to stay at rest.

You have the health management thing, which I can't even begin to comment on. All I will say is the shortest path is sometimes right straight through the Fire Swamp.

 

[TexasFlyer]

I'd go with the DEC gig that is the smallest poop sandwich with the most toppings... pay, easiest commute, closest base to home, potential flow, etc... and then grind and network like you are selling Ronco and move on as soon as you can.

No matter what you choose, it's not going to be ideal. So take your best guess at the shortest path to the job you want.

Also, get better advice than the advice from a bunch of pilots who have the golden handcuffs, etc. Like a career counselor or something - someone unemotional about the whole thing. Honestly, you need more data about the state of the industry, future hiring, flow times, etc.

The thing about my career, even though I didn't land where I was expecting to (or wanted to, really...), my 'forever' airline is a great place to work. I was never comfortable - at all - while I was in the apprentice/journeyman stage of my career. I want to say it was by design, which it was a bit, but it was also a happy accident. It's very easy to become a 'lifer' with a little bit of QOL and seniority. Bodies at rest tend to stay at rest.

You have the health management thing, which I can't even begin to comment on. All I will say is the shortest path is sometimes right straight through the Fire Swamp.

And Endevour now just gave me the offer too.

 

[CFIT99]

Go DEC with the the least amount of hit to QOL...then keep updating every 2 weeks...that's about it. GL

 

[ClearedForOption]

And Endevour now just gave me the offer too.

What's the plusses/minuses of the DEC CJO's?

 

[TexasFlyer]

What's the plusses/minuses of the DEC CJO's?

Pay hovering around $200k with base and per diem due to my longevity. Also big long term upside of pay and great benefits at the Regionals. Also, in my opinion, more long term stability (although this may not be true in reality). Also a better flying schedule itself due to the 121 rules and company policies versus 135 rules. The downsize is a commute and need for a crash pad and reserve for 3-5 years, meaning not much home time during this time period. But after about 5 years the quality of life and all else will exceed absolutely anything elsewhere can likely offer. That also said, I only have about 12 years left in my flying career at a 121. Really, the only minus, is the quality of life for a few years when my career at this point is short and quality of life is important to me (but then is it $100k a year important... not sure).

 

[DE727UPS]

So which PSA base are you moving to. Seem like a no brainer.

 

[TexasFlyer]

So which PSA base are you moving to. Seem like a no brainer.

At PSA I would likely bounce between PHL and DAY for a few years until I could hold CLT. CLT is easy. PHL not very easy but doable. DAY with flights, difficult but I'd bounce there sometimes since I have family there that I can spend time with.

Endeavor threw a wrench into things today with a CJO. Was actually not expected that one to work out since I did not interview the best there in my opinion. Was an off day for me. Maybe too many roller coaster rides the day before at Mall of America! Anyway, that would be an ugly and personally fearful LGA/JFK for 3 years, maybe 4. But they have an amazing commute policy of positive space if the first planned commute does not work out, which greatly can increase QOL. Plus, in 4-5 years once I can hold ATL, that's a very easy commute.

So that complicated decision factors. But it's really between these two regionals and seriously NJM on the 8/6 schedule since they sound to offer a good long term QOL from the start versus having to earn an amazing QOL over about 4-5 years. That said the 135 world is always there for me but with my age, the 121 world makes this my time to do it or forever forget it. Oddly, this is the hardest decision I have ever had to make in my life I believe. Marriage and house and vehicle purchase decisions were easier!

Oh. The coolest job of them all would be at Silver on the ATR. That would be a blast. And home based after about 6 months or so is the rumor. But frankly. I ran the numbers and I would struggle to afford to work there as an FO and likely would not upgrade on the ATR for at least 12 to 18 months. Such a cool bird and great flying there, but that's the only one I truly can't take due to finances.

 

[derg]

My answers may seem a little cold, but I think you're asking for cogent answers.

That is me. The mediocre. Why mediocre. Well. When you iny flown 55 hours in the last 7 years and that being in a DA40, that's mediocre. Your 5000TT and 2000 121 time is, well, long ago ...

So what's the state of the industry for mediocre?

1) CJO from Envoy 2 months ago as Direct Entry Captain, no start date yet.

Do not stop looking

2) CJO from Piedmont as Direct Entry Captain, but no start date anymore due to hiring freeze.

See above

3) CJO from PSA with August start date as Experienced FO (Capt hiring on hold) but at 7 years longevity (3 weeks vacation and 180 per hour).

That sounds weird but > nothing

4) Endevour interview results pending.

Well, honestly, there's at least a pathway to a major, but then if you step off that pathway, that airline says "Are you sure? if you don't nail it, DOOMZ".

5) CJO from NJM as CJ3 PIC, 8/6 schedule with an August start date.

Still may mean an interim move somewhere else unless that type flying is your target.

6) CJO from another small 135 operator on Citation Bravo as PIC, not interested as it's on call with few hard days off.

If you're not interested, you're not interested.

7). CJO from Silver on ATR as FO with accelerated upgrade to PIC, Sept start date.

If they call first, jump on the opportunity.

And now. Mediocre now has to decide what to do! The hiring market is still holding up, even if it has slowed a bit and things are looking a bit uneasy economically and at some 135s and 121s.

The hiring market is still "north" of where it is in a normal year. Remember 2022/2023 were anomalies.

And as for choices, Mr Mediocre is coming off a near 7 year recovery from a sleep disorder (as those that follow me know), these are tough decisions. Commute at a regional where the commute is ugly. Or steady schedule making half the pay at a 135 that may work ne 14 hours nonstop all 8 days on the road, but know that comes with a decent amount of time off at my real home when not faced wirh an ugly commute with a no seniority reserve schedule. Grateful, but have to pick wisely. And FAA has me submitting a report on my flying plans and how I will be able to be certain my sleep issues do not resurface. That's part of my special issu

Anything in the airline business is murder on the sleep schedule if you're not able to adapt.

My salient point is to get you flying again. I'd almost suggest if your sights are on a mainline carrier somewhere, choose the regional at their competitor. Say if you want to work for American, hit up Endeavor. If you want to work for United, hit up Envoy.

 

[ClearedForOption]

So, I was listening to one of the career counselors on a podcast on my walk last night. All the above is very salient. Knowing that you have 12 years left unless the 67 folks get their way in 5 years is good data.

My best guess of your path is probably going to be an RJ CA (1 to 3 years?) to Legacy/Major FO to (maybe) Narrowbody CA at the same carrier for a couple 3-5 of years, probably on RSV/Junior lines or whatever prior to retirement.

Weigh the CJO's & listen to Doug - continue to do the stuff that makes you stand out from the crowd. Are there any of those dreaded training contracts that figure into the calculus. Also, look at picking a place that you know that you can live at for a little bit - if it comes to that. I would guess that more doors are going to open once you get "current" and the hiring train moves back into 2nd gear.

IMHO NYC sucks - I commuted to there from the west coast for 8+ years. That being said, if any place on this earth is set up for transient living... it's the slew of Kew Gardens crashpads. I can count the times on one hand when I didn't get in or out of the area - it was the sheer # of commutes and length of the flights that was killing me slowly.

Really, again IMO, the hardest part is your age with the ticking clock. Would a flow actually work out, or is that music gonna stop? Which job helps you save for the future the best? It's not like you are 22 and have 43 years to ignore retirement.

I wish I had better advice other than to make lists & narrow it down to the essentials that you think will get you to the next step fastest. Write everything out, talk to the family, write it out again. Try to be as unemotional and data driven as you can... then Jump.

 

[DE727UPS]

I used to fly with a VERY senior F/O a lot prior to retiring. He was going to upgrade just prior to retirement for the pension bump but had no interest in taking the seniority hit to be in the left seat. Nothing wrong with being a PFO at a legacy for QOL reasons.

 

[N826AW]

Having just gone through this on the FO side of things, CJOs aren't worth the paper they are printed on. First class date wins. And even then, I wouldn't claim victory until you have a badge and a direct deposit.

 

[Kingairer]

Well done getting that many CJOs! You should now write interview books to supplement income.

 

[CFI A&P]

Having just gone through this on the FO side of things, CJOs aren't worth the paper they are printed on. First class date wins. And even then, I wouldn't claim victory until you have a badge and a direct deposit.

Even getting on payroll has some ups and downs. This is apples and oranges, but I have more than one friend that was hired to a 91 position, went to the 142 school house and while there that owner/ management company called and said "We've decided to sell the jet, school is paid for, enjoy the rating, thank you and good luck in your future."