St. Elmo's Fire

Great info, jynxy. I have expanded my knowledge base in a way that doesn't involve unions, what airlines suck, or how great CAP is/isn't. This might be an internet first.

PS. If there isn't dirt coming off the floor, you're not in a thunderstorm. ;)

The autopilot didn't even kick off. The guy can still hold the camera. I want my money back.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Great info, jynxy. I have expanded my knowledge base in a way that doesn't involve unions, what airlines suck, or how great CAP is/isn't. This might be an internet first.

PS. If there isn't dirt coming off the floor, you're not in a thunderstorm. ;)

The autopilot didn't even kick off. The guy can still hold the camera. I want my money back.
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Lol.

Eh, I hope we aren't that bad! This certification stuff is kinda geeky but if you all really like it I should find a way to get us all to the lab I used to work at and watch some demonstrations :). Might be easier just to meet up for beers though.
 
The only time I really "think" i saw it, was during the record breaking snowfall in ME during the 2007/2008 winter. We were headed up to RKD through a Snow storm complete with thunder, and discharges (COOL!!) windows, wipes, and props were all glowing pink, The windshields conentrated heavily on the areas where the winshield heat power ran, the nose was discharging pretty well...

Radios were def. crap.

Needless to say Thundersnow means there is a LOT of static energy... so it may have just been normal discharge... I don't recall what the static wicks looked like
 
Even with perfectly bonded static wicks you'll find buildup is just too much for many other reasons. Static wicks sure help. Sometimes a bad harness can be worse than static wicks.

I have yet to find a saab that doesn't go Tango Uniform on the radios when we enter WX, even if it is just some ice and rain.

Makes you guys feel any better the only test I ever did was on an older model E90 that had some hours on it. During the EMI test things were rock solid and most of us attributed the good test results to the anodizing on the connectors wearing off. Giddy-up.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Might be easier just to meet up for beers though.
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I'm in!

Boris Badenov said:
PS. If there isn't dirt coming off the floor, you're not in a thunderstorm. ;)

The autopilot didn't even kick off. The guy can still hold the camera. I want my money back.
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Wait? You have an autopilot? Oh yeah, that must be nice in that MU-2. When did you get dirt into that beautifully painted aircraft? I thought only oil and cargo was allowed to bounce in the aircraft...wait, that's what the cargo net is for, right? ;)
 
jynxyjoe said:
Even with perfectly bonded static wicks you'll find buildup is just too much for many other reasons. Static wicks sure help. Sometimes a bad harness can be worse than static wicks.

I have yet to find a saab that doesn't go Tango Uniform on the radios when we enter WX, even if it is just some ice and rain.

Makes you guys feel any better the only test I ever did was on an older model E90 that had some hours on it. During the EMI test things were rock solid and most of us attributed the good test results to the anodizing on the connectors wearing off. Giddy-up.
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Those collins... I think would have stood up to Katrina. The Q is a good example of how not to do it. They use a good mix of composite and standard construction... But from what I've seen, there is no bonding between the elements. Spinners in no way bonded to the airframe etc, So it gets really bad during storms. I've got video of arcing between the nose and wipers, windshield frame, and pretty much anything metal out there. Some arcs were prob. close to 8-10 inches... maybe more. That is a crap load of voltage for sure ;) We also get a fair amount for electrical field generation in moisture (yay) they seem to attract lightning like blood attracts sharks... Also for some reason, the airplane whistles in clouds:o
 
Some of the sources:
FAA William J Hughes Technical Center Electromagnetic Test and Analysis
Specification and testing for power by wire aircraft NASA Tech Memorandum 106232 1993
NASA Contractor Report 165794 1981 Investigation of Several Lightning Strike Incidentsnto 2 USAF F-106A Aircraft Lightning Technologies Inc. Pittsfield Mass
NASA Contractor Report 3590 Interpretation Methodology and Analysis of In-Flight Lightning Data (Rudolph and Perala 1982)
General Aviaton Lightning Strike Report and Protection Level Study DOT/FAA Aug 2004
Design of Lightning Protection For Full Authority Digital Engine Control (Dargi, Rupke, Wiles) Lightning Technologies, Inc.
FAA-STD-019e Dec 2005 Lightning and Surge Protection, Grounding, bonding and shielding requirements for Facilities and electronic equipment
Lightning Protection for Aircraft per RTCA/DO-160D an d ARINC 429 Protocol
Estimation of an En Route Weather Severity Index Using Lightning Strike and Flight Plan Data (CNA Corp, FAA
NASA ASRS data base searching terms "lightning"; "lightning strikes"

Sorry it took so long to find my notes.
 
AviatorGator said:
:yeahthat: Or at least close to places I shouldn't be. I've seen it on the 'Van and several Citations. The 208 is cool because of the big prop swinging up front.
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:yeahthat: (the van). Saw it one night in a van when I was WTFC to the magenta on the "feel good box". Cloud to cloud, in cloud, I'm sure cloud to ground...that was a "fun" night :sarcasm:.

-mini
 
Got it about a month ago at 16,000 in the tops, lasted off and on for aprox 15minutes. Over central NY.

It was the first time in 10 years of flying I have ever seen it and it was VERY cool.
 
MattB said:
Got it about a month ago at 16,000 in the tops, lasted off and on for aprox 15minutes. Over central NY.

It was the first time in 10 years of flying I have ever seen it and it was VERY cool.
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You need to fly more :sarcasm: I see it several times a year in Cargo flying especially since we don't "divert" that much around storms:sarcasm:
 
Orange Anchor said:
Some of the sources:
FAA William J Hughes Technical Center Electromagnetic Test and Analysis
Specification and testing for power by wire aircraft NASA Tech Memorandum 106232 1993
NASA Contractor Report 165794 1981 Investigation of Several Lightning Strike Incidentsnto 2 USAF F-106A Aircraft Lightning Technologies Inc. Pittsfield Mass
NASA Contractor Report 3590 Interpretation Methodology and Analysis of In-Flight Lightning Data (Rudolph and Perala 1982)
General Aviaton Lightning Strike Report and Protection Level Study DOT/FAA Aug 2004
Design of Lightning Protection For Full Authority Digital Engine Control (Dargi, Rupke, Wiles) Lightning Technologies, Inc.
FAA-STD-019e Dec 2005 Lightning and Surge Protection, Grounding, bonding and shielding requirements for Facilities and electronic equipment
Lightning Protection for Aircraft per RTCA/DO-160D an d ARINC 429 Protocol
Estimation of an En Route Weather Severity Index Using Lightning Strike and Flight Plan Data (CNA Corp, FAA
NASA ASRS data base searching terms "lightning"; "lightning strikes"

Sorry it took so long to find my notes.
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Hehe, finally satisfying my curiosity! God I love this stuff. I figured most of your stuff had to come out of LTI in Pittsfield. Good place to work for.

Just want everyone to note up there the F-106 tests were back in '81 with a metal airplane :). I wish there was funding to do it all over again with a big composite. I don't know the CNA Corp guys real well nor Rudolph but I believe I know Perala. So basically Nasa and LTI. Good deal.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Hehe, finally satisfying my curiosity! God I love this stuff. I figured most of your stuff had to come out of LTI in Pittsfield. Good place to work for.
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Glad to put this to rest.

Have a great day and stay off the ramp when storms within 10nm (yes, I know some suggest longer distances but I chose 10 as an average. The ramp is the most dangerous place to be with storms nearby/on the field)
 
Orange Anchor said:
Glad to put this to rest.

Have a great day and stay off the ramp when storms within 10nm (yes, I know some suggest longer distances but I chose 10 as an average. The ramp is the most dangerous place to be with storms nearby/on the field)
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Yeah good advice.

If you do get stuck however, do not lay down. Crouch down as low as you can go on the balls of your feet and wait it out. Laying down could expose you to potential differences on the ground and kill you from the current. Stay on the balls of your feet to minimize contact to ground and stay low to minimize your likelyhood of being struck. Of course if you're a sinner you'll be struck down so I'd suggest tequila. Do I sense a hijack?
 
I have seen it while flying a 210 at night in IMC. It started from the center of the prop or spinner then slowly walked itself out to the tip of the prop disappearing. It was a wonderful ring of white light.
 
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