JoelT
Well-Known Member
FFD????
Split ALPA into a Regional and a Mainline Unit?
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
FFD????
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Fee For Departure (the evil airline minor league division)....
JoelT
Well-Known Member
DOH!!! There's something I should have known.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Dunno...let's see the results:
AMR: APA has some of the tightest scope remaining in the industry. Still have a pension.
SWA: ZERO RJs and no outsourcing.
UPS: Independent Union...they still have a full retirement and just about zero outsourcing.
CAL: Still operating under the pre-ALPA contract scope rules. Zero 70 seaters.
AAA+AWA: Imploded pilot group. Tons of RJs and 4 bankruptcies between the two. No pension.
DAL: King of the Scope Short Bus Riders. The ones that first gave it all away. No Pension.
UAL: No pension, tons of RJs.
NWA: Had Tons of RJs, which were permitted to save what was left of the pension.
So, tally the results, and come up with an objective answer. If the goal is to secure the MOST flying for your pilot group, who did better?
The whole concept of scope or contract at the regionals is fail. There can be NO meaningful improvements to the working conditions at the scooters because there is no intra-regional scope. If you have no contractual right to the flying, then you have ZERO traction when it comes to contract time. Even if you get some improvements, the next cycle sees your flying outsourced to the lowest bidder. Management knows the TRUE cost of scope at the regionals, and it is something that you will NEVER see, simply because the downward pressure management can apply is FAR too valuable. They would rather pull the plug on a regional rather than allow them to have any meaningful leverate (a fate Comair came with a gnat's ass of).
Frankly, I have no reason to pull for something that can never happen. I'd rather see my union apply pressure to where it CAN do some good and where we DO have contractual rights to the flying. Maximize the pressure there, and expand the pool of mainline jobs.
Quite honestly, DAL provides almost %30 of the ALPA operating budget. With those numbers, and perhaps with pooled resources with the APA, SWAPA and the IPA, I think that putting the money where it will do the most good, IE for DAL pilots, is the optimum solution.
I'm against a "mainline and regional" ALPA unit. It should be a clean split....there's no sense in living with your ex if you're not sleeping with each other.
Although you can still have Moak for ALPA president if it gets him out of ATL.
Richman
AMR: APA has some of the tightest scope remaining in the industry. Still have a pension.
SWA: ZERO RJs and no outsourcing.
UPS: Independent Union...they still have a full retirement and just about zero outsourcing.
CAL: Still operating under the pre-ALPA contract scope rules. Zero 70 seaters.
AAA+AWA: Imploded pilot group. Tons of RJs and 4 bankruptcies between the two. No pension.
DAL: King of the Scope Short Bus Riders. The ones that first gave it all away. No Pension.
UAL: No pension, tons of RJs.
NWA: Had Tons of RJs, which were permitted to save what was left of the pension.
So, tally the results, and come up with an objective answer. If the goal is to secure the MOST flying for your pilot group, who did better?
The whole concept of scope or contract at the regionals is fail. There can be NO meaningful improvements to the working conditions at the scooters because there is no intra-regional scope. If you have no contractual right to the flying, then you have ZERO traction when it comes to contract time. Even if you get some improvements, the next cycle sees your flying outsourced to the lowest bidder. Management knows the TRUE cost of scope at the regionals, and it is something that you will NEVER see, simply because the downward pressure management can apply is FAR too valuable. They would rather pull the plug on a regional rather than allow them to have any meaningful leverate (a fate Comair came with a gnat's ass of).
Frankly, I have no reason to pull for something that can never happen. I'd rather see my union apply pressure to where it CAN do some good and where we DO have contractual rights to the flying. Maximize the pressure there, and expand the pool of mainline jobs.
Quite honestly, DAL provides almost %30 of the ALPA operating budget. With those numbers, and perhaps with pooled resources with the APA, SWAPA and the IPA, I think that putting the money where it will do the most good, IE for DAL pilots, is the optimum solution.
I'm against a "mainline and regional" ALPA unit. It should be a clean split....there's no sense in living with your ex if you're not sleeping with each other.
Although you can still have Moak for ALPA president if it gets him out of ATL.
Richman
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
The "lets have everyone in one group so we can pull up their wages" has been tried for almost 20 years now.
No regional has siginificantly improved their pay and working conditions without losing a significant amount of flying, and this policy certainly hasn't improved any job security at the majors. In fact, the pool of major jobs has shrunken considerably
Time to put this failed policy to rest. You guys do your own heavy lifting.
Richman
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
I'd agree. But do you really think major airlines are going to recapture scope if the regional hordes become a separate entity and drop their costs even more? It's a losing battle here every day trying to convince guys that we shouldn't vote in a pay freeze/cut just to get more 900s on property. You can be damn sure that the leadership on your end of the field will role over and give away more scope in return for various job perks and pay raises. Hell, look at Moaks's latest move. As you say, it's been happening for the last 20 years so why would it stop now? And if you completely separate the two there will be absolutely NOTHING stopping the feeding frenzy to get more flying for each regional.
The FFD task force is a good start. The next step is ya'll stopping rolling over like puppies and giving away MORE scope every time management offers you something.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Do it.
It's your career that will falter.
Our's is already at the regional level and we have nothing to lose at this point.
You, on the other hand, have all your domestic feed to lose first. The situation at Republic right now is instructive.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Wanna bet?
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
How many seats in a Q400? Or did you mean zero 70 seat JETS? Minor flaw in the scope clause there, but who knew there would be a 70 seat turboprop when that contract was signed? Then again, if you told me a regional would buy two majors in less than six months, I'd have called you a basket case, too. But reality is a strange beast.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
CAL had 70 seat ATR's for a long time. It was a known issue.
JoelT
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but the SkyPig is still the only airliner that gets bird strikes from behind
.
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but the SkyPig is still the only airliner that gets bird strikes from behind
Be nice some of us fly that POS.:crazy:
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
Yeah, but the SkyPig is still the only airliner that gets bird strikes from behind
Obviously someone that has never flown something with Darts hung on it....
Then again, as an hourly employee, the speed is what it is. 2 hours of block is 2 hours of block. Put some "high speed" metal on that leg, now it's 1.5 and now it's an extra leg a day!
