MaRiO FDZ
JJ Abrams you Insensitive Bastard.
On Spin a wing is Stalled and the other is les stalled. On a Spiral Dive, no wing is stalled, and gets tighter and tighter as angle of bank [edit] and or [end edit] angle of attack is increased.
Spins
- Thread starter bc2209
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Deleted member 27505
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Absolutely, it's probably never going to be an even ratio or even a constant ratio. It all depends upon what an individual student needs to "get it". All I'm saying is that it rare indeed for someone to be able to truly suss out what's going on aerodynamically in any maneuver through only flight training OR ground training. One informs the other. What is important, imo, is that pilots have a deep understanding of what's going on that can inform fluid actions in the cockpit under a dizzying array of varied circumstances.
Obviously, a pro pilot is going to need more than a private pilot in terms of regs and procedures and type training and such. But airplanes don't care what kind of certificate a pilot holds; airplanes will always fall out of the sky for the same reasons. A solid, deep and broad understanding of basic practical aerodynamics -and the ability to prioritize that appropriately- is the foundation upon which everything else in aviation is built.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
It's a lack of coorilation with the subject matter. I find it interesting when the opponents to spin training pull the unnecessary risk card, but have no problem with Vmc demos during multi-engine training.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
In a spin airspeed will be low, in a spiral airspeed will be high and increasing.
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Deleted member 27505
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Airspeed will be low because pitots experience airflow in the same way wings do... But be under no illusions that you are not moving through the air in an increasingly rapid fashion ... straight downward.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
Not necessarily. Think about a snap roll.
Talk about it in terms of Angle of Attack and load factor. Not airspeed.
Edit: Unless you're making it a point to show what the ASI indicates in a spin....
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USMCmech
Well-Known Member
I always demonstrate spins once to my PPL students during the later stages of their training. I demonstrate one and then they do one. I don't care about recovering on a certain heading, or how much altitude they lose.
If they never want to do another one again, that's fine by me (aerobatics is not everyone's cup of tea) but it's important that the student knows what a spin looks like. Typically their stalls improve afterward since they are not so worried about what will happen if they enter a spin.
If they never want to do another one again, that's fine by me (aerobatics is not everyone's cup of tea) but it's important that the student knows what a spin looks like. Typically their stalls improve afterward since they are not so worried about what will happen if they enter a spin.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
Airspeed will be low because pitots experience airflow in the same way wings do... But be under no illusions that you are not moving through the air in an increasingly rapid fashion ... straight downward.
Allow me to clarify,
Airspeed displayed on the gauge will be low, but the airplane's velocity will be increasing in direction other than straight ahead.
Runincolorado
Well-Known Member
During my PPL the day we did power on stalls was a day I dreaded due to reading all of the "if you are not coordinated, you will spin. if you spin, you will die" discussion in the syllabus. Needless to say, no big deal in a 172. Fast forward to after my MEL, I wanted the skills to stop a spin. Despite a fun yet incredibly dangerous spin training with a CFI I decided what I really needed was some acrobatic time. Found this guy that I later realized was in the hall of fame for spins, jumped in his Pitts and climbed to 8'000ft. Inverted, to the right, the left, and accelerated. All of my misconceptions (and almost stomach contents were gone). I came back and told my girlfriend once she gets her PPL she will be doing the same thing. I found it critical to becoming a better pilot. The question that stumped me while doing ground before spins? Which way does the ball go in a left spin?
After a few months of not being in a Pitts, we went out did a rudder walk (yes I sucked at it) and then did a spin to get my feet working again. Here is the video.
After a few months of not being in a Pitts, we went out did a rudder walk (yes I sucked at it) and then did a spin to get my feet working again. Here is the video.
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Deleted member 27505
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I guess I like music as much as anyone, but in this case would have much preferred to hear what your instructor was whispering in your ear.
Runincolorado
Well-Known Member
I was glad he was in the front as normally I just get hit in the back of the head and get told "now why did you do that?!?!" which I almost always want to respond with "if I knew why/how I did it I would not have done it!"
For the rudderwalk, he was complaining I was "throwing" the rudder too far and instead i needed to "jab" them. As you see toward the end the plane calms down a lot as I calm down and do a lot less movement. For the spin, it was just a walkthrough of when the aircraft stalls add full left rudder and the comment of "recover." The conversation at the end was about flying to refuel and that I was surprised my airwork was not as horrid as I thought.
For the rudderwalk, he was complaining I was "throwing" the rudder too far and instead i needed to "jab" them. As you see toward the end the plane calms down a lot as I calm down and do a lot less movement. For the spin, it was just a walkthrough of when the aircraft stalls add full left rudder and the comment of "recover." The conversation at the end was about flying to refuel and that I was surprised my airwork was not as horrid as I thought.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Since he hasn't answered yet, I'll toss in that I'm betting Roger Roger's "That's just...I don't even know" was a comment on CFIs who don;t understand the difference, not a statement that he doesn't know the difference.
As in "That's just so incredibly stupid and scary...I don't even know how to comment on the idiocy of it..
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Deleted member 27505
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That's certainly what I took it to mean.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
That is pretty much what happened in the one I referred to earlier. My student was doing a power-on stall in a 172. Nose way up and right rudder pressed in. I glanced at his face and it was such a mask of overfocused concentration and stress that I just felt in my bones he would not release all that right rudder when the stall came. I decided it would be a great lesson to let it happen (I knew him well enough to trust he would release the controls to me on command). And sure enough...
Best stall/spin awareness lesson I ever gave.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
I understand this is a family forum.I guess I like music as much as anyone, but in this case would have much preferred to hear what your instructor was whispering in your ear.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
My follow up question was always something to the effect of "which will have a higher indicated airspeed, a spin or a spiral dive?" Want to guess which one 95% of applicants said would show a higher airspeed?
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Deleted member 27505
Guest
A hammerhead with full power on the downline??
MaRiO FDZ
JJ Abrams you Insensitive Bastard.
Heheh yeah, I figure so, too. But again the problem is not knowing, it is not wanting to know. No swing intended at no one. Sorry if that was misunderstood like that. Yet, the replies I've read are brain candy for me, anyway.
Take care!
