Spinning a C172P

Dazzler

Well-Known Member
A student of mine wants to see what a spin is like. I'm training him in a C172P.
The only spins I've done were during my CFI training in a Super Decathlon.

Obviously I wouldn't spin the 172 with the student until I have done them with a competent instructor, but what can I expect? I'm assuming they will be a lot tamer than in a Decathlon, which is built for and classified as aerobatic.
 
It almost recovers by itself. I've done the initial phase of a spin in a 172SP and it's not violent at all. Just rolls over and begins a turning dive. Very easy to recover from.

RD
 
:yeahthat:

When you finally get it to spin, it'll recover very easily.

-mini

Soon enough :) Demonstrated is pretty close, did about 270 degrees. When you do them though, it's about 5gal of fuel to get her into the 'Utility' Category (at least with the G1000)

RD
 
[thread grenade]

So....should spin training be required or not?

[/thread grenade]

:D
 
[thread grenade]

So....should spin training be required or not?

[/thread grenade]

:D

Oh man comon thats not even right. We have argueed 2 other threads on this can I just copy and paste this time?

Also a 172P won't even get into a full developed spin at least not that I have been able to do. It gets into an incipient stage will start to climb out of it snap over (another incipient) start recover then repeat. It won't hold a developed spin around the CG at least not in our aircrafts configurations. A 152 or an aerobat would prove better for showing an actual spin but go read through the other posts on this first. "Spins in primary training" and "what happened here and why." Good luck.
 
I've done the initial phase of a spin

Would you say it was the incipient phase... ;)
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Do you have a VFR aircraft that you can switch to?
I always hate to see those things tumble, makes me feel like I am being hard on the gyros.
 
Once you let go the plane will come out of the spin on its own, thats why Cessnas are terrible spin trainers. If you want to hold them in the spin add a bit of power but even that isn't always enough.
 
I forgot one tip for you to check on that 172 if you spin it. Back on the rudder the part that connects to the control rod and loops around (looks like a horizontal 'parallel to the ground' U). That connector should be checked stop to stop and make sure it hits the middle of the stop (a small hex bolt sticking out slightly at a 45 degree (angle from centerline) from the rear lower tail section). There have been spin accidents cause from those pieces sliding up and over the bolt giving you a stuck rudder!

PS Sorry I don't know all the techincal terms for those pieces.
 
Also a 172P won't even get into a full developed spin at least not that I have been able to do.

I have done them in an SP, hold full aft elevator and keep the rudder in and you can get a few turns of a spin out of it. Plane will let you know it does not like it, as soon as you release control pressure it will start to recover on its own. I have of course always added in spin recovery controls and it is out quickly.
 
Would you say it was the incipient phase... ;)
-----------

Do you have a VFR aircraft that you can switch to?
I always hate to see those things tumble, makes me feel like I am being hard on the gyros.

That's the one! ;) Thanks!

RD
 
Once you get it turning, add power and it'll tighten up. I think you have to keep it below 2000 lbs gross, too, for the Utility Category.
 
I have done them in an SP, hold full aft elevator and keep the rudder in and you can get a few turns of a spin out of it. Plane will let you know it does not like it, as soon as you release control pressure it will start to recover on its own. I have of course always added in spin recovery controls and it is out quickly.


The SP you were in, where the rear seats still in the aircraft?
 
Rear seats were in, unoccupied of course. If I remember right we had about half tanks. Were well in the utility catagory.


Hmmm I flew the R model, they are nearly identicle as far as utility and W&B (I fly the SPs now). We were unable to do it in the utility category, if the rear seats were in we were aft cg and/or over weight. Weight was the big one, 2000 pounds sounds right by the way(as deadstick said). So you were definately heavier then us, either way that difference would do it and is most likely why you were able to get into that spin.

I would double check your W&B was utility and definatelly not forward or aft the CG limits. If so then I have no clue why the college took all the damn rear seats out and deemed them "spin cessnas."

Edit: Update, I just did a quick check on weights for the R model and we would be 79 pounds over gross if: 1639 (book value) aircraft, 240 lbs fuel (40 gal just under half tanks), and 2 x 150 lb pax for 300 lbs in the front seat. Thats 2179 lbs and they are light (faa pax estimate is 180). The SP may be able to carry more but 2100 is the utility in the R and I think it is the same for the SP. You can probably do spins just would need to be with 10 gallons a side basically just enough for reserve on landing. Half a side you most likely were over Utility weight limit. (If the CFI replies this: "Oh the weight limit is over thats fine as long as the C.G. is in limits thats whats dangerous" he/she is wrong and you should explore that with them and learn why.) Not saying this happened in your situation, I have just heard local CFIs at my airport say that!
 
Edit: Update, I just did a quick check on weights for the R model and we would be 79 pounds over gross if: 1639 (book value) aircraft, 240 lbs fuel (40 gal just under half tanks), and 2 x 150 lb pax for 300 lbs in the front seat. Thats 2179 lbs and they are light (faa pax estimate is 180). The SP may be able to carry more but 2100 is the utility in the R and I think it is the same for the SP. You can probably do spins just would need to be with 10 gallons a side basically just enough for reserve on landing. Half a side you most likely were over Utility weight limit. (If the CFI replies this: "Oh the weight limit is over thats fine as long as the C.G. is in limits thats whats dangerous" he/she is wrong and you should explore that with them and learn why.) Not saying this happened in your situation, I have just heard local CFIs at my airport say that!

I was doing the same thing. First, agree with you on the weight comment. I have not flown an SP in a few years, only have an information manual for the R as well. Using weights of myself and the CFI I was with at the time (we are each smaller than the 150 each you alloted), and 20 gal of fuel (I know we pulled out fuel to be in the utility envelope). Anyways you can get into the utility envelope with the rear seats in the aircraft.

For what it is worth, the seat removal is worth a half inch of GC movment forward and 25 lbs less weight. With the size of a lot of people I am guessing even your "spin approved Cessnas" may not have given the assurance of the utility catagory with all types of people in them

Bottom line always run a WB before doing spins.
 
I would double check your W&B was utility and definatelly not forward or aft the CG limits. If so then I have no clue why the college took all the damn rear seats out and deemed them "spin cessnas."

Insurance. You pay less w/ the back seats removed.

-mini
 
Insurance. You pay less w/ the back seats removed.

-mini

I am a moron damnit! I knew that, I was actually just discussing it with our airport insurance guy why an Extra 300L wouldn't run much over a new 172SP. He told me because 2 dead people is cheaper then 4!
 
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